- Mar 20, 2012
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Deodorant said:
Man, those must be some damn fine noodles.
Introducing Kong King
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Man, those must be some damn fine noodles.
Yea, i was trying not to put it so negatively.
Correct
No, I was just pointing out that he said he made all the custom assets.
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Now, onto my input.
I don't know where all this hatred for the map is coming from. We spend so much time complaining that we never get new maps (or even better community maps), bitching and moaning that we never get recognition. Then, the one time we have one of our own community members, an experienced designer and artist, gets asked by Valve to make a map for them we tear it to shreads and insult the author's choices and experiences. It makes us sound like a little spoiled kid who begs and begs for a lollipop, but then throws it in the trash just because it's cherry flavored, not grape.
Yea, 3DNJ isn't super active in the community, like Ravidge, muffin or prestige for example; but that doesn't give us the right to tear him and the map down. Whenever
We got a new map, a new theme, a new location! Be happy! The artstyle is evolving; it happens, deal with it. In a game that has lasted as long as TF2, artstyle will evolve, it can not be avoided and it is a necessity for the longevity of the game. I for one thing that the artstyle is fucking spot on for 1960's/70's Urban Asia (Source: I've 3 classes on Asian Art and history). Yea, the gameplay needs a little more work. A lot of maps were changed after they were officially released (Coldfront, Yukon, etc). Hating on the theme and that the map doesn't have a clear directive isn't going to help. This is a new map, by one of our community mappers; be supportive.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but come on guys. Are we really at the point where we insult each other, even if they did good work?
I think you missed the part where tearing into the map is a part of the feedback process. The map came out of fucking nowhere and according to popular opinion, not without flaws. I never complained when Rexy and Wilson went on a half hour rant about how shit my maps are, i learnt a lot from what was said. Usually the most personal and harsh criticisms have the most truth behind them and the fact a map recieves feedback from us at all is like a God send as it means we're interested enough to talk about it.
People are well within their rights to voice opinion if they're pleased or not with something, the fact that it came free doesn't excempt it from criticism.
People are well within their rights to voice opinion if they're pleased or not with something, the fact that it came free doesn't excempt it from criticism.
You're right, it is part of the feedback process. But there is a point at which tearing something apart becomes useless noise, rather than helpful. From what I've been seeing recently (here and on other maps), there has been points at which it's pushing useless noise, rather than good feedback.
Most things have been mentioned already, but my main gripe is the clutter both visual and gameplay-wise.
I'd also have to agree it doesn't fit tf2. Too bad because I would like an urban tf2 map it just didn't need to be so noisy and have this harsh transition between blu and red.
Also the roof that covers the point could not have worse geometry to play on, that alone could be a dealbreaker for me.
I'd also have to agree it doesn't fit tf2. Too bad because I would like an urban tf2 map it just didn't need to be so noisy and have this harsh transition between blu and red.
Also the roof that covers the point could not have worse geometry to play on, that alone could be a dealbreaker for me.
- Mar 20, 2012
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Yikes. I'm not trying to hold 3Djn's face to the map like a dog when it shits on the carpet. He's no doubt an experienced mapper and knows where his strengths and weaknesses lie.
I'm also not going to pretend that the map is aesthetically perfect and doesn't warrant critical discussion. By no means am I rallying together pitchforks and torches to go and burn down 3Djn's house - rather, I'm debating why his map is split among his audience. It's not him specifically, either. We did this with Doomsday.
In fact, we beat Doomsday into the ground much harder than this. At least this map is beautiful and has semi-decent gameplay, which apparently Doomsday has neither of.
3Djn should be proud. I said so quite a few posts ago. But a stamp from Valve doesn't mean we shouldn't critique it. We all benefit from that process. It's not that I'm filled with hate. I'm trying to get what I can learn from this.
I'm also not going to pretend that the map is aesthetically perfect and doesn't warrant critical discussion. By no means am I rallying together pitchforks and torches to go and burn down 3Djn's house - rather, I'm debating why his map is split among his audience. It's not him specifically, either. We did this with Doomsday.
In fact, we beat Doomsday into the ground much harder than this. At least this map is beautiful and has semi-decent gameplay, which apparently Doomsday has neither of.
3Djn should be proud. I said so quite a few posts ago. But a stamp from Valve doesn't mean we shouldn't critique it. We all benefit from that process. It's not that I'm filled with hate. I'm trying to get what I can learn from this.
Sel
Banned
- Feb 18, 2009
- 1,239
- 2,570
artpass_acegikmo
Ace's artpass was flawed in other ways
also
also
because otherwise it would be koth_lakefront duh
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I liked cp_relay from our #6 contest. It wasn't the best urban aesthetic (it could have used some custom textures), but the map was obviously urban and was very fun to play.
I was going to detail backlot to be basically like this, but in NY.
I guess I should redetail now.
I guess I should redetail now.
I really don't think it is a necessity at all. People will keep playing a game if they like it, regardless of how it looks. Counter-strike? Starcraft? Probably poor examples, but there are few games I can think of that have lasted at high player levels for years on end, but TF2 really sticks out the amount it has changed.
I think most of the unhappiness of themes is the fact that TF2 stands alone in being presented as having an explicitly defined visual style to aid in gameplay that had a lot of thought put into it, which then got tossed aside. It's different from a game that never talked about style tossing in style changes.
Deodorant
L6: Sharp Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 263
- 214
I think there's a very big and important difference between evolving and breaking. I loathe stuff that introduces a completely new and independent style that goes against the original theme. See: the Grordbort items, most promos, the chronologically random theme park items, etc.
I love it, however, when they introduce stuff that adds variety but stays consistent with what makes the original style and setting great. See: The alpine theme, the Gas Jockey's Gear, the Ullapool Caber, etc.
I'd say this map falls somewhere in between. It breaks some relatively basic visual guidelines, but it's still very obviously a conscious effort to elaborate on the existing style rather than create a new one.
By the way, Sergis, your new signature is lovely.
I love it, however, when they introduce stuff that adds variety but stays consistent with what makes the original style and setting great. See: The alpine theme, the Gas Jockey's Gear, the Ullapool Caber, etc.
I'd say this map falls somewhere in between. It breaks some relatively basic visual guidelines, but it's still very obviously a conscious effort to elaborate on the existing style rather than create a new one.
By the way, Sergis, your new signature is lovely.
I don't like how the differentiation between gameplay and aesthetic content has been diminished. The silver metal signs of various types were recognisable as gameplay props and the player knows "Gotta pay attention to this sign" over paying attention to "caution: high voltage" overlays. The very fact that they are universal across all maps and themes excaserbated that fact.
The new spawn signs hide away in amongst the modern chinese theme. It was unnecassery to update the gameplay props like that just for the sakes of "something different".
The new spawn signs hide away in amongst the modern chinese theme. It was unnecassery to update the gameplay props like that just for the sakes of "something different".
The team-coloured lights are grrackh.
Trotim
aa
- Jul 14, 2009
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It's interesting STAR mentioned a payload map in this theme. One of my many "lol, I will never get around to doing this" layout ideas was a payload map set in Ginza or Shibuya. I sort of abandoned it due to the sheer number of props I'd have to make for it... but who knows, now that we have the theme ready to go (albeit Chinese rather than Japanese) maybe I'll give it a shot after I'm done with skyward.
