- Thread starter Acegikmo
- Start date
Icarus
aa
- Sep 10, 2008
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Played it one out 32-man Custom Server.
I found your paths extremely convoluted and very frustrating to maneuver around. Your CPs are well hidden and is difficult to even locate. This is not alleviated by the fact that you are a minimalist with signs here.
We also found B to be incredibly difficult to attack. Usually, CPs are elevated. But in your case, sinking it into the ground creates a haphazard clusterfuck when it becomes a hotspot.
Players were confused about which waters were safe or were a death-pit. If you could lower the water level for the deadly ones, it should be clear which one is OK.
Needs some serious reworking, but I look forward to testing it again once you have attempted fixing some of these issues we had. It is B1, after all.
I found your paths extremely convoluted and very frustrating to maneuver around. Your CPs are well hidden and is difficult to even locate. This is not alleviated by the fact that you are a minimalist with signs here.
We also found B to be incredibly difficult to attack. Usually, CPs are elevated. But in your case, sinking it into the ground creates a haphazard clusterfuck when it becomes a hotspot.
Players were confused about which waters were safe or were a death-pit. If you could lower the water level for the deadly ones, it should be clear which one is OK.
Needs some serious reworking, but I look forward to testing it again once you have attempted fixing some of these issues we had. It is B1, after all.
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- Feb 26, 2008
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You can't honestly mean all that? It was tested at 32p throughout its cycle, the points are statistically balanced, all water not in C is death (easy as hell to remember), and the paths are EXACTLY like gravelpit... so that sounds like a TON of snapjudgment
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
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Oh my god! Have you guys EVER played gravelpit? EVERY CONNECTOR IS THE SAME IN THAT MAP. At least Ace throws it up depending on which direction you're going. Other than that they have the SAME layout as gravelpit, not that hard to learn.
- Jan 31, 2008
- 555
- 1,482
How are the paths convoluted when glacier has only got one extra path compared to gravelpit's layout?
If you look at this image you'll see that the connections are set up almost exactly like GP:
This is the kind of feedback you'd get from someone who have only played the map for five minutes. Having signs in a map is just to help the player a bit when they have just begun playing it. I have put signs so that the player knows where the control points are as they exit the blue spawn areas, but apparently you didn't see the signs. I have signs where it is needed. There is no need to clutter the whole map with signs just so one person will know the layout the first time he plays it. I have a sign at every entrance to a new area.
As you may havce noticed, I am trying to make glacier unique, both aesthetically and from a gameplay perspective. If I would have elevated every control point it would be alot closer the the gameplay of many other TF2 maps. It isn't unreasonable to make a good map even if the caps are in a pit.
I have no idea how you could confuse that. Every water pit that is outdoors is a death-pit, the water that is on the floor at C and even inside the lower red spawn is of course not deadly.
I'm not sure if you expect me to completely redo the layout because the points are too hidden or elevate every single point on the map so it follows the guidelines Valve set up with their maps. It just won't happen, there are many people who are completely fine with the way it is right now.
I'm sorry if this may seem a bit snappy but I really didn't expect this kind of feedback from such a talented mapper like you.
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When Icarus says the paths are confusing/same-ish/convoluted, I'm fairly sure he means they feel that way, not that they actually are. Arguing that on paper it's very intuitive doesn't mean anything if it isn't intuitive in-game. (I myself have only ran around the beta release; I haven't played it in a server, so I can't make a judgment myself.)
Regardless though, what does this mean:
How can someone's feedback on a map be "wrong?" That's ridiculous. I mean, if Icarus was frustrated he was frustrated. You can't be like, "NO! You actually had a wonderful time! You're wrong!!!"
Regardless though, what does this mean:
How can someone's feedback on a map be "wrong?" That's ridiculous. I mean, if Icarus was frustrated he was frustrated. You can't be like, "NO! You actually had a wonderful time! You're wrong!!!"
- Jan 31, 2008
- 555
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I didn't say he was wrong, why do you quote something I didn't write?
I'm just saying that the kind of feedback he gave me was not something I expected from someone who generally makes good maps and understand the gameplay mechanics.
When I put "wrong" in quotes it was more like finger quotes than an actual quotation. But what else could you possibly mean by "this kind of feedback"?
I'm just saying: it doesn't matter if you expected someone to have those problems with the map or not - feedback is feedback. You can argue against the feedback to try and prove there aren't any problems, but it's not going to improve the map at all.
- Jan 31, 2008
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Icarus
aa
- Sep 10, 2008
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I think it came out wrong. I did not mean to be so critical.
Normally, right as you walk into an area, players should almost immediately have an idea of where the objective is. Because Glacier plays with elevation so much, it's more important to have some kind of indication of where you are supposed to go, and the paths you are offered. Unlike Gravel Pit, Glacier does not make it's entrances and exits very visible, so it was a bit frustrating to navigate. I found myself hopelessly wandering around A, and I really don't like to fight vertically so often, so I wasn't really having a very enjoyable time.
But most importantly, a sign or two as you walk into the battlefield.
Normally, right as you walk into an area, players should almost immediately have an idea of where the objective is. Because Glacier plays with elevation so much, it's more important to have some kind of indication of where you are supposed to go, and the paths you are offered. Unlike Gravel Pit, Glacier does not make it's entrances and exits very visible, so it was a bit frustrating to navigate. I found myself hopelessly wandering around A, and I really don't like to fight vertically so often, so I wasn't really having a very enjoyable time.
But most importantly, a sign or two as you walk into the battlefield.
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kankle_king
L4: Comfortable Member
- Jan 31, 2009
- 161
- 86
Gonna be playing it tonight, Fridays are always packed so we'll have close to 40 people being introduced to this sweet map. Msg me if you want some more STV's
- Jan 31, 2008
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I have added this map to my servers normal rotation. We all enjoy it very much, except for the last point is near impossible for the blue team to take. I had to restrict the red team to 1 engi limit, and changed the spawn times for red to 10sec and blue to 4sec.
With those modifications it works out perfect and most people love the design/feel. If you want to sit in on the map and get peoples opinions, let me know. I can host an event with the server and you can get feedback from 32 people. Done this for a few map testers in the past.
With those modifications it works out perfect and most people love the design/feel. If you want to sit in on the map and get peoples opinions, let me know. I can host an event with the server and you can get feedback from 32 people. Done this for a few map testers in the past.
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
Zanpa
L4: Comfortable Member
- Jan 17, 2009
- 164
- 43
He also made 3 other backgrounds from Glacier ^^
Phobos
L3: Member
- Feb 22, 2009
- 130
- 50
My fps get cut in halve at B and C. No one else mentions this massive fps drop, so maybe it's something at my end. But I never experienced such a drop on any other map.
You got a beatiful snow theme that makes the map really stand out, you don't need the teleporter effect during a capture to make it stand out even more. It's too much.
Being at A, the rocky tunnel entrance to B clashes with the concrete from the building besides it. Somehow it doesn't look right.
You got a beatiful snow theme that makes the map really stand out, you don't need the teleporter effect during a capture to make it stand out even more. It's too much.
Being at A, the rocky tunnel entrance to B clashes with the concrete from the building besides it. Somehow it doesn't look right.