Cauldron a10

[Shmitz]

Alpha 5 released:

ALPHA 5
* Fixed the clip problem that was blocking the exits to the final forward spawns.
* Changed the layout of the "lobby" hallway between points 1 and 2. Hopefully it'll be more natural to take for defenders.
* Began adding optimization hints to the map.
* Converted some ramps to stairs, visually.
* The arrow in the cave tunnel now only points to the center at the beginning and after you have taken the center.


KNOWN ISSUE:
There are two groups of rocks in the middle area that may have awful splotchy shadowing on them. I'm interested in knowing if they look fine to you. I see no problems on my computer, so I'm trying to figure out if it's an issue with graphics settings, or some other factor that may or may not be unique to me.

 

[Void]

BLU didn't do so well.

 

[Squirrelinabox]

I was always on red, so I couldn't really tell why blue was having such a hard time. Most of the games were blow outs, but when blue finally had a couple sentries on the last point, it at least slowed us down.

A few things I noticed...

After the opposing team takes the middle point, you switch the arrow's direction just out of the spawn to point towards your team's second point. I see the reasoning for this as it's to show the player the next point they are supposed to defend, but it was a little confusing since players who were looking to attack the third point were sometimes following that arrow and going to the wrong point. Perhaps have an arrow of your own team's color point towards the point you are to defend, and an arrow of the enemy team's color point towards the point you can attack?

It was mentioned a couple times that the final point can be taken way too easily after the second to last point is taken. This seems to be due to two main factors - the incredibly quick cap time, and the short distance between the last two points. If a team loses that second to last point, they have little to no time to spawn and defend the final point before the other team takes it. The only times the last point wasn't completely overrun instantly, was when the defense decided to setup a sentry and a couple defenders before the second to last point was even contested. This seems like a waste because they you are basically giving up the second to last point just to make sure the last point is defended.

The second to last point itself bugged me for some reason. I think it felt a bit cramped and it was difficult to tell what direction people would be coming from. I saw a lot of people setting up to defend the wrong hallways as the attackers would come in from behind them repeatedly.

With so many people playing spy and sniper, it's hard to figure out whether the gameplay was balanced, but it was definitely fun. I'm definitely looking forward to future versions!

 

[Shmitz]

I used to have that arrow pointing towards the middle if you were in push mode, but I discovered that it led to Team X flanking around and sitting on the middle point, while Team Y went straight to point 2. They wouldn't meet, and because point 2 caps more quickly, Team Y would win the cap race every time. Then they would push on to the final point and usually take it before Team X, who was still trying to backtrack from the middle, could catch up and stop them.

The side tunnel is great for getting to the middle quickly, but that's not a strategy everyone should be using, because then there is nobody left to stop opponents who are pushing straight through.

I've been hesitant to increase the cap time on the last point because 5cp maps become no fun if they stalemate by forever bouncing back and forth between points 1 and 2. But someone (may have been you) made a good point that the last CP is a bit closer to point 2 than it is on other push maps. I may try increasing CP 1's time slightly and see what happens.

 

[Ida]

The last point is definitely very close to point 2. Not a crime, but it seems very easy for the attackers to rush because of that. I think the defenders had a hard time because they were unable to set up at the final point in time no matter what, so maybe lower their spawn time for that point?

Overall, though, this is great stuff. I love the second point and the middle point, and...well, I wish I could say something about the last one, but I hardly every got to see it.

 

[Shmitz]

I'm thinking of making the following change to the cave route from main spawn to middle:

Basically, make it so you exit into that little side room. I'm hoping it will cut down slightly on travel time and also make it more likely that people will encounter attackers coming after their second point.

Can anyone think of any potential cons to doing this?

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

Potential Cons...?

1) Would potentially increase camping in that room

2) Likely to make flanks by defense to attack 2nd faster

I think the upsides outweigh the downsides... I assume that you're going to make length of the cliff shorter to match? Basically the net effect is going to be that

1) It will allow the slower classes to catch up on the middle push because soldiers & demos will be under the roof longer and have to wait to jump

2) It will encourage combat in that area when flanking either to or from 2nd/4th.

3) It will probably encourage more spawncamping by the offense when they start to notice that entrance more.

Meh. I think it's a brilliant idea.

 

[Gaw]

I just popped in to say, I love your map.

I played it during gameday and it has swiftly become my favourite map; And i'm not a fan of control point maps!

I look forward to the final release

 

[MangyCarface]

That'd be a very good change Shmitz.

 

[Shmitz]

Did a little modeling:

 

[Mar]

Sexy

 

[Shmitz]

Alpha 6 Released

ALPHA 6
* Slightly increased cap time of final points.
* Changed cave between base spawn and center area. The cave now exits into the small side room instead of next to the building.
* Arrow signs now change to help attackers find points 4 and 5 better.

___________________________________

This will probably be the last alpha, unless some really significant layout issue crops up in this version. After this I will be detailing it up for beta release.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

Any news, Shmitz?

 

[The Political Gamer]

Any news, Shmitz?

I think he has been working on Meridian's RC.

 

[mtv22]

This looks really good, i would love to see a beta of it.

 

[zpqrei]

Yeah, but wait for the testing of Meridian to finish before this, don't feel pressured

 

[Remix]

Looks awesome. I think I might be willing to organize some playtesting for the map within our clan.

 

[rk-]

Love the map, love the design, and love the scale of CP3 particularly - looking forward to how it evolves. Couple things, though:

1. How attached are you to the cliffs?
- I instantly see a problem arising from the fact that you can fall off a cliff and die at CP3 and CP1/5 - there's already enough irritation from the pushback effect of the Force-a-Nature, and the fact that you can get shoved right off the cliff in this map is going to be a big negative I think. They're beautiful, and great fun in a pub-setting, but for a competitive 6v6 map this is definately a con - instead of having to actually KILL someone, the scout can just FaN them off the edge, which means you're rewarding those with less effort/skill.

2. Take out the cave altogether?
- The cave-route from Respawn (CP1) to CP3 is great for the race to 3, but has some definate setbacks and should probably be taken out all together. There's a great deal going on between CP2/4 & CP1/5, so you won't really miss it, and the added security for the defense is worth taking a little longer to get to CP3 in the opening moments. The problem is, once you lose CP3, that cave route instantly becomes bad thing because it's such an effective flanking route for enemy scouts, not to mention a spawn-camping demo. And offensively, it's not really a problem if you make a team work to get to CP3 by taking out their easy-access route.

These are just priliminary things I noticed, gonna try and pug over the next few days and get a better feel for the map - really, REALLY like the design though, and it's a very beautiful looking map. Thanks a bunch!

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

OMG! Success!

If I had a super huge prize to give you, I would. But for now a hug/leg hump will suffice. Either way, you rawk for testing out my favorite 5CP, finally that GotFrag topic produced some results.

And having said that, very good feedback that I think I agree with also. It's very functional in less organized settings, but that far path will be abused as a way into spawn by attacking teams, for sure. I know you've discussed this already but either making it a one way path for offense when they have 3rd or 2nd would be an easy solution (I don't know of any 5CP maps with one-way-doors). ^_^

 

[rk-]

There's a couple, a one-way gated door on cp_generator_b4b comes to mind.