- Thread starter Fruity Snacks
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I've been playing several rounds in the last days and while I like the overall layout I think it has some flaws in terms of map flow and navigation. In certain areas there's too many routes, making it not only confusing, but also really hard to defend and more than often the layout is in favour of the attackers. So once they capped the first point they pretty much rushed through the other two as well because it was impossible to set up a defense. If you'd like to hear my ideas I'll go on to analyse the layout and post some feedback. Here's a few ideas for the first area:
I'd move the logs to the other side of the track and add another path from both sides leading up to this choke area making it much easier to navigate the map and counter other players.
This CP is not very accessible for the defending team so I'd add a path there on the left. And also add some cover so you can set up a dispenser or teleporter there (see next screenshot)
Simplify the layout by removing the long hallway on the left and add a doorway on the other room instead.
I'd move the logs to the other side of the track and add another path from both sides leading up to this choke area making it much easier to navigate the map and counter other players.
This CP is not very accessible for the defending team so I'd add a path there on the left. And also add some cover so you can set up a dispenser or teleporter there (see next screenshot)
Simplify the layout by removing the long hallway on the left and add a doorway on the other room instead.
FlowPlow... SnowFlow?... The flow of snowplow.
Developer Blog #1 of I don't know how many.
Developer Blog #1 of I don't know how many.
So this is a quick blog post describing the changes we've made to snowplow ahead of our release of snowplow b7 (coming soon). It discusses a couple of things we've removed from snowplow to make the flow smoother. Flow is a gameplay term that describes the progression of a round and the location, timing and positioning of the 'front line' of the battle. So, here's the changes and some reasoning behind them.
Firstly, we've removed all trigger_player_respawn_override entities from the map. These are volumetric entities added with rd_asteroid that directly changed the respawn wave time of players within its volume. Basically, we had these around some points on the map so that after the point was capped, it would be enabled for 3 seconds. If any red players were killed during those 3 seconds, they would get instant respawn (which is what we had it set to). YM and I have determined that this mechanic may be hurting the flow of the map, more than helping it. We're going to see what affect these have on the maps flow, and assign new respawn times for both teams across all points. These are basic changes and will probably be refined, if we feel that this is a positive direction to go in.
What was happening? Sometimes, if a lot of red died right after the point was capped, they would all be there, ready to fight blu on the next point. Other times, if a lot of red died right BEFORE the point was capped, they would not get the instant respawn, and would NOT be at the next point to fight, thus giving blue the sense of rolling.
Secondly, we have removed the stun-delay on the traps. We felt that this was giving the map the feeling that it was being rolled through, even though it might not have been. For those who didn't know, the stun basically made it so that the after the train arrived to the next point, the trap wouldn't start doing damage for X seconds. The amount of seconds X was, was determined by the train health. So, the lower the train health, the longer the delay was between arrival to a trap, and when the train started to take damage. This was a mechanic meant to give blue a small advantage when Red was putting up an extra good defense. Even at high train health, the delay meant that the train wouldn't take its first hit of damage after arriving at a point until 40 seconds after arrival, more than enough time for blue to cap, or do serious damage to reds defense. At lower train health, the delay was close to a whole minute.
As always, we will monitor these big changes during various tests of this version.
Thanks for reading this really quick Dev Blog #1. I hope to write another one soon on the design theory I used for snowplow, and why snowplow isn't just another CP A/D map.
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The map itself is looking really, really good, but I want to make some suggestions for the next Beta relase
+Make the train larger
+Make the map and stages larger
+Make that people can actually ride (Or atleast be inside of it, like a transport) the train itself
+Make that the train can move a bit slow when you capture a point, and then it can go to lighting speed, to atleast give time to players to get on the train
-Less medkits and ammo boxes
-Fix the train exploding function
These are just suggestions. It's not neccesary to add them, but I'm just trying to help by saying somethings that are wrong about the mode, but atleast the mode is still fine.
+Make the train larger
+Make the map and stages larger
+Make that people can actually ride (Or atleast be inside of it, like a transport) the train itself
+Make that the train can move a bit slow when you capture a point, and then it can go to lighting speed, to atleast give time to players to get on the train
-Less medkits and ammo boxes
-Fix the train exploding function
These are just suggestions. It's not neccesary to add them, but I'm just trying to help by saying somethings that are wrong about the mode, but atleast the mode is still fine.
b7 changelog
+ Fixed some chimneys not spinning. (Amazing what some WD40 can do!)
+ Continued detailing work in various places.
+ Removed instant spawn for red players dying shortly after a blu capture*
+ Removed the delay between the train impacting a trap and the trap being activated.*
+ Blu ubers on a point no longer pause the trap. Red ubers still resume.
+ Removed a nobuild on some crates by point 1 in stage 1.
+ Swapped "We're running out of time" (heard only by blu) with "Mission ends in 30 seconds" (heard by both teams)
+ Added a stairwell on the cross-over between Stage 2, point 1 and 2 that goes from the bridge to upper balcony overlooking Stage 2, point 2.
+ Fixed some chimneys not spinning. (Amazing what some WD40 can do!)
+ Continued detailing work in various places.
+ Removed instant spawn for red players dying shortly after a blu capture*
+ Removed the delay between the train impacting a trap and the trap being activated.*
+ Blu ubers on a point no longer pause the trap. Red ubers still resume.
+ Removed a nobuild on some crates by point 1 in stage 1.
+ Swapped "We're running out of time" (heard only by blu) with "Mission ends in 30 seconds" (heard by both teams)
+ Added a stairwell on the cross-over between Stage 2, point 1 and 2 that goes from the bridge to upper balcony overlooking Stage 2, point 2.
Jummbl
L1: Registered
- Aug 30, 2014
- 24
- 9
Yes, I can! I am really sorry for the late reply. Most other forums I use notify you when you're quoted, so I'm not used to checking the same thread again and again.
Here's an imgur album showcasing some of the spots I found, stage one (these may be outdated, because I took them just before b7 was released): http://imgur.com/a/gT5YE
[Not balance related!]
ALSO, I don't really like how the train just loses all of it's velocity and just stops. Since the traps are supposedly slowing it down, that must mean that the train somehow retains it's velocity. So maybe instead of just stopping, a machine picks the train up while it's moving and lets the wheels run? The logs could hit it from the side, or you could even trash the logs (which I doubt you will), and make it so the train is being weighted by boxcars attached to the back while it's stalled.
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Thanks
Train speed is something that is complained about a lot, but don't worry, we have that covered and you'll see what it does when we get the train actually into the map.
Jummbl
L1: Registered
- Aug 30, 2014
- 24
- 9
Okay then! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.
Jummbl
L1: Registered
- Aug 30, 2014
- 24
- 9
I found a clipping exploit in b7. It's above the first point on stage two, I believe. I don't know if the roof next to it has a perch, so you may want to check that.
Data!
So, not only do we have heatmaps, but we've also been keeping track of the train health at time of a point cap. These are the graphs of the 7 data we've collected with Low player count and obvious stacking, removed (These are considered outliers and unusable data).
Graph 1: Multiple layered rounds of b7.
Graph 2: Average health of the train after capping its respective points
So, not only do we have heatmaps, but we've also been keeping track of the train health at time of a point cap. These are the graphs of the 7 data we've collected with Low player count and obvious stacking, removed (These are considered outliers and unusable data).
Graph 1: Multiple layered rounds of b7.
Graph 2: Average health of the train after capping its respective points
OK, I know we're not supposed to comment on detailing since it's obviously unfinished and a lot of things will be dealt with when you get around to them, but there's something that I found that you're not likely to catch when you get to that point:
You see this broken face on the trim, here? Turbine's staircases all have this same problem, and the reason has to do with t-juncts or something like that; basically the trim brushes are touching too many steps at once.
Fortunately, the solution is simple: Just cut the trim brushes in half.
You see this broken face on the trim, here? Turbine's staircases all have this same problem, and the reason has to do with t-juncts or something like that; basically the trim brushes are touching too many steps at once.
Fortunately, the solution is simple: Just cut the trim brushes in half.
Didn't see that, I'll fix it up for the next version.
SSX
aa
- Feb 2, 2014
- 392
- 411
Alright, here's my AAFA (After Action Fuck All) Report.
This empty cliff makes the area feel way too open which makes me feel uncomfortable about defending or attacking it.
This 1st point for blue has become the craziest first point to attack for me. As 9 times out of 10 (From my game experience), there will always be a sentry located on the right side. And look where all paths lead straight into. The sentry gun's range, and usually a sniper will be on the line sight somewhere too.
This rooftop. My. God. Every time I have played this map on attacking, this point is always the most brutal because of the lack of height difference on Blue's side, and the fact you have a doorway that requires a direct 90 degree turn into the battle area. This roof in general should be blocked off, or just blocked off to engineers, as they love to build up there, and basically rain down hell on everyone from there. It's 10 times as hard when you have 2 soldiers up there.
The only other side path here is somewhere in that building, and it feels like coming out of it I'm trapped between a rock and a hard place. Especially when an engineer is setup somewhere near the point.
This room suffers from both a too open, and too small idea. The windows make it seem very open, and it's really annoying when snipers can shoot through that window. The small part comes in with the sizes of the staircases/balconies, they're huge, not allowing free flowing combat to commence. Everytime I'm in here, I feel like the ceiling is shorter than it should be.
Suffers from the same thing that both 1st and 2nd from the first stage suffers from. A full 90 degree turn with not enough distance between the point and the turn. And there only being two actual paths as one is just a small side off from the the main path. Not to mention, all paths lead right into a sentry gun most of the time.
I'm gonna complain about this till the day I die. But...third stage, third stage, third stage. What happened to the part in the video where there's a giant cliff and the sniper and scout are driving along that ridge to catch the train. I guess this is supposed to be that area, but it doesn't feel...open...
What I'm saying is that the 1st, and 2nd stage doesn't seem to flow together as we see in the video sniper and scout go along this really large cliffy area, and it doesn't even exist.
Another thing I have an issue with is I feel like I'm playing a modified cp. Where it's just a train that determines the timer and not a timer itself. I'd probably enjoy it a bit more if there was some sorta payload system involved where the train needed to be pushed by the team to continue. Maybe hold one of the areas with the train for a few seconds or something after getting to the cap zone?
That's all I have for right now.
This empty cliff makes the area feel way too open which makes me feel uncomfortable about defending or attacking it.
This 1st point for blue has become the craziest first point to attack for me. As 9 times out of 10 (From my game experience), there will always be a sentry located on the right side. And look where all paths lead straight into. The sentry gun's range, and usually a sniper will be on the line sight somewhere too.
This rooftop. My. God. Every time I have played this map on attacking, this point is always the most brutal because of the lack of height difference on Blue's side, and the fact you have a doorway that requires a direct 90 degree turn into the battle area. This roof in general should be blocked off, or just blocked off to engineers, as they love to build up there, and basically rain down hell on everyone from there. It's 10 times as hard when you have 2 soldiers up there.
The only other side path here is somewhere in that building, and it feels like coming out of it I'm trapped between a rock and a hard place. Especially when an engineer is setup somewhere near the point.
This room suffers from both a too open, and too small idea. The windows make it seem very open, and it's really annoying when snipers can shoot through that window. The small part comes in with the sizes of the staircases/balconies, they're huge, not allowing free flowing combat to commence. Everytime I'm in here, I feel like the ceiling is shorter than it should be.
Suffers from the same thing that both 1st and 2nd from the first stage suffers from. A full 90 degree turn with not enough distance between the point and the turn. And there only being two actual paths as one is just a small side off from the the main path. Not to mention, all paths lead right into a sentry gun most of the time.
I'm gonna complain about this till the day I die. But...third stage, third stage, third stage. What happened to the part in the video where there's a giant cliff and the sniper and scout are driving along that ridge to catch the train. I guess this is supposed to be that area, but it doesn't feel...open...
What I'm saying is that the 1st, and 2nd stage doesn't seem to flow together as we see in the video sniper and scout go along this really large cliffy area, and it doesn't even exist.
Another thing I have an issue with is I feel like I'm playing a modified cp. Where it's just a train that determines the timer and not a timer itself. I'd probably enjoy it a bit more if there was some sorta payload system involved where the train needed to be pushed by the team to continue. Maybe hold one of the areas with the train for a few seconds or something after getting to the cap zone?
That's all I have for right now.