Assume that we can't do anything with the hud currently because it's just a screen overlay, and we can only have 1 overlay going at a time.
- Thread starter Fruity Snacks
- Start date
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Beta 2 was released, all servers updated to have it.
+ Ammo/HP condensed or moved around.
+ Simplified layout in a building by Stage 1, point 2.
+ Moved Red resupply locker back in Stage 1, point 3 spawn.
+ Removed secondary Red spawn room from Stage 2, point 3.
+ Adjusted stage 2, point 3 respawn times for both teams.
+ Fixed clipping exploit stage 1, point 1.
+ Added A/B/C signs for points in both stages.
+ Increased light level stage 1, point 2.
+ Opened skybridge over stage 1, point 3, into a balcony.
+ Adjusted spawn times for stage 2, point 3.
+ Increased setup time for both stages.
+ Replace Glass with temporary easier-to-see textures.
+ Moved stage 2, point 1 onto the bridge.
+ Increased height of several capture point areas.
+ Ammo/HP condensed or moved around.
+ Simplified layout in a building by Stage 1, point 2.
+ Moved Red resupply locker back in Stage 1, point 3 spawn.
+ Removed secondary Red spawn room from Stage 2, point 3.
+ Adjusted stage 2, point 3 respawn times for both teams.
+ Fixed clipping exploit stage 1, point 1.
+ Added A/B/C signs for points in both stages.
+ Increased light level stage 1, point 2.
+ Opened skybridge over stage 1, point 3, into a balcony.
+ Adjusted spawn times for stage 2, point 3.
+ Increased setup time for both stages.
+ Replace Glass with temporary easier-to-see textures.
+ Moved stage 2, point 1 onto the bridge.
+ Increased height of several capture point areas.
Cool, it will be interesting to see how it affects engineers with the increased setup time.
Btw, you repeated the "Adjusted spawn times" point.
Don't forget to put the new version on the european servers aswell 
Can't wait to test the new version!
Can't wait to test the new version!
- Feb 15, 2011
- 333
- 344
I'm not having fun playing the objective on this map. I don't enjoy attacking or defending control points.
When I think about the times I've had the most fun on this map, they were all times when I adopted a playstyle not unlike deathmatch. I've been playing a couple games every day on the EU server, and it feels like I've had to yell at someone in every single game to actually play instead of spycrabbing or having a sandvich party or pretending they're Delfy - so I don't think it's just me. Maybe it's just confirmation bias.
I'll try and break down why I'm not having fun on each point individually, but on account of the aforementioned idiot infestation on EU, my thoughts are considerably less organised than I'd like them to be, so bear with me.
Starting with 1-1, it's like Dustbowl 2-1. It doesn't feel like there is a choke in this area, instead of a choke, it has two big, open yards on either side of a corner that creates this big wall of spam where the two areas meet. To cap the point you've got to completely displace RED's defence out of this area. RED can also completely displace BLU out of this area which leads to spawncamping. and with the recent changes in health locations and amounts, there isn't much to sustain an attacking team through this wall of spam.
As RED, I really feel that unless we do start spawncamping them, there's no point in defending A, being the first point means that it's generally not that difficult for BLU to capture it (Unless we can spawncamp) and due to the specifics of the timer mechanic, whatever amount of time you can buy by defending A can be completely nullified if they cap within about 80 seconds. I usually skip A and set up a sentry on B - there's better ammopacks on B, too.
A large amount of the action takes place along the border I've marked and the areas directly beside it.
1-2 has the exact same problem, but worse. There's not much of a choke, it's just two big areas and a fuckload of dudes you need to clear out if you want to attack B. It's worse because the flank - the building that skirts the deathpit - doesn't flank much of anything and is right next to a deathpit.
And this is where setting up on B earlier really helps, the most powerful sentry position at B can cover the entirety of this border between RED and BLU territory, making B a rather difficult point to attack - again exacerbated by lack of health pickups - but you can only set up this kind of defence if you start building before A is capped. To cap A you need to eradicate RED's presence on it, so most of the defending team are respawning, and even if you don't die while A is being capped, there's no time to set up on B because there's nothing in between the spam wall at A and the spam wall at B to slow them down, the fight instantly moves to B and then it's too late to set up a sentry. It's either a roll or a slog.
Once again, a lot of fighting happens along the marked border, particularly where the one-way door is. Also of note is how powerful the sentry position in this area is.
1-3 is probably the most fun part of stage 1, but it's very limited in what ways you can approach and attack it. You can either take the low ground, which is covered by a very large sightline and contains virtually no health. Or you can take the bridge and utilise the convenient medium healthpack, massive height advantage and startling proximity to the point.
I think people prefer the upper route. Maybe. Don't quote me on that.
As RED, this point is a nightmare to defend. That sightline works both ways, and the upper route gives BLU a very protected area that is practically right on top of every defender in the area from which they can easily push from. I actually like the idea of having this big towering building over the point, like the building overlooking the third point in Barnblitz, but the biggest difference between this building and the one in Barnblitz is that your building is essentially handed over to BLU team. The building in Barnblitz is easily accessible by attackers and defenders and so there is a fight over this advantageous position.
I'm not going to talk about stage 2 yet, I'm still working out how I feel about that stage. I'm also not going to give you any really specific suggested changes, even though I have my own ideas, you're smart guys, you can figure it out.
What I would suggest is to alter the area in between BLU spawn and A, and the area between A and B so that they don't create these large, open spaces with nothing between them and other large, open spaces controlled by enemies. I'd also change the buildings around C to have both teams fighting over the height in that area, but create some space between the height and the point so that whenever BLU wins the high ground, they don't have such a massive advantage over the defenders.
When I think about the times I've had the most fun on this map, they were all times when I adopted a playstyle not unlike deathmatch. I've been playing a couple games every day on the EU server, and it feels like I've had to yell at someone in every single game to actually play instead of spycrabbing or having a sandvich party or pretending they're Delfy - so I don't think it's just me. Maybe it's just confirmation bias.
I'll try and break down why I'm not having fun on each point individually, but on account of the aforementioned idiot infestation on EU, my thoughts are considerably less organised than I'd like them to be, so bear with me.
Starting with 1-1, it's like Dustbowl 2-1. It doesn't feel like there is a choke in this area, instead of a choke, it has two big, open yards on either side of a corner that creates this big wall of spam where the two areas meet. To cap the point you've got to completely displace RED's defence out of this area. RED can also completely displace BLU out of this area which leads to spawncamping. and with the recent changes in health locations and amounts, there isn't much to sustain an attacking team through this wall of spam.
As RED, I really feel that unless we do start spawncamping them, there's no point in defending A, being the first point means that it's generally not that difficult for BLU to capture it (Unless we can spawncamp) and due to the specifics of the timer mechanic, whatever amount of time you can buy by defending A can be completely nullified if they cap within about 80 seconds. I usually skip A and set up a sentry on B - there's better ammopacks on B, too.
A large amount of the action takes place along the border I've marked and the areas directly beside it.
1-2 has the exact same problem, but worse. There's not much of a choke, it's just two big areas and a fuckload of dudes you need to clear out if you want to attack B. It's worse because the flank - the building that skirts the deathpit - doesn't flank much of anything and is right next to a deathpit.
And this is where setting up on B earlier really helps, the most powerful sentry position at B can cover the entirety of this border between RED and BLU territory, making B a rather difficult point to attack - again exacerbated by lack of health pickups - but you can only set up this kind of defence if you start building before A is capped. To cap A you need to eradicate RED's presence on it, so most of the defending team are respawning, and even if you don't die while A is being capped, there's no time to set up on B because there's nothing in between the spam wall at A and the spam wall at B to slow them down, the fight instantly moves to B and then it's too late to set up a sentry. It's either a roll or a slog.
Once again, a lot of fighting happens along the marked border, particularly where the one-way door is. Also of note is how powerful the sentry position in this area is.
1-3 is probably the most fun part of stage 1, but it's very limited in what ways you can approach and attack it. You can either take the low ground, which is covered by a very large sightline and contains virtually no health. Or you can take the bridge and utilise the convenient medium healthpack, massive height advantage and startling proximity to the point.
I think people prefer the upper route. Maybe. Don't quote me on that.
As RED, this point is a nightmare to defend. That sightline works both ways, and the upper route gives BLU a very protected area that is practically right on top of every defender in the area from which they can easily push from. I actually like the idea of having this big towering building over the point, like the building overlooking the third point in Barnblitz, but the biggest difference between this building and the one in Barnblitz is that your building is essentially handed over to BLU team. The building in Barnblitz is easily accessible by attackers and defenders and so there is a fight over this advantageous position.
I'm not going to talk about stage 2 yet, I'm still working out how I feel about that stage. I'm also not going to give you any really specific suggested changes, even though I have my own ideas, you're smart guys, you can figure it out.
What I would suggest is to alter the area in between BLU spawn and A, and the area between A and B so that they don't create these large, open spaces with nothing between them and other large, open spaces controlled by enemies. I'd also change the buildings around C to have both teams fighting over the height in that area, but create some space between the height and the point so that whenever BLU wins the high ground, they don't have such a massive advantage over the defenders.
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b3:
- Revised stage 2 point 1.
- Adjusted stage 2, Primary BLU Spawn exit to be wider. It is know that the doors clip through walls. This will be revised in later versions.
- Reverted stage 2 point 2 to a pre-beta version.
- Minor adjustments to spawn times.
- [Hopefully] fixed some blu players spawning inside each other.
- Pointed players in the right direction when spawning in blu forward, stage 2.
- Added some cover before point 2 in stage 1.
- Adjusted door overlooking point 3 in stage 1.
- Increased quantity of arrows.
- Tracks.
- Log clipping and crush trigger.
- ???
- Added gates to warn those of an incoming runaway train
Two ideas: First off I think instead of a timer Red team should be able to damage the train, and the train should go a bit slower. Secondly I think the train when it's done should be the same height, but a bit longer. (And no trailer on the back like on frontier). Plus the train should wait 3 seconds or so so you could jump on to ride it.
Sentries that setup on the left of the train here are harder to get rid of than I feel like they should, if you give the left side a raised little ledge like you have on the right here it may be slightly easier to spam them out over the train.
Saw someone building a sentry on the box in b4, probably no build it, though it is a cute spot to let people find.
Hello, folks.
I know the HUD is temporary, but I don't know what your plans are for its final design, if indeed that is in your hands. So if this suggestion is unwarranted, I apologise.
When I first started to play the map and tried to work out what the HUD was for, I found it confusing. The percentage, and the two team colours on the train icon, made me think it was some kind of overall capture objective that could be fought over, and would continuously go back and forth between the two teams. It took me a bit to realise it was actually a train health meter.
My suggestion is to remove the percentage figure, and to turn the red colour of the train icon to grey. Then, have the blue colour draining downwards, as if the life of the train was draining away out of a vessel with a hole in its bottom, and the grey replacing it, signifying emptiness. Since the train belongs to BLU, and is part of the offensive, I believe the red colour introduces some confusion over the mechanic. Especially when in TF2, we are used to seeing blue energy bars draining away, in MvM and against bosses. Having red and blue in it made it seem more like a control point, to me.
Aside from that, the map is interesting.
Please don't jump on me, TF2maps.
Thanks,
Matty
I know the HUD is temporary, but I don't know what your plans are for its final design, if indeed that is in your hands. So if this suggestion is unwarranted, I apologise.
When I first started to play the map and tried to work out what the HUD was for, I found it confusing. The percentage, and the two team colours on the train icon, made me think it was some kind of overall capture objective that could be fought over, and would continuously go back and forth between the two teams. It took me a bit to realise it was actually a train health meter.
My suggestion is to remove the percentage figure, and to turn the red colour of the train icon to grey. Then, have the blue colour draining downwards, as if the life of the train was draining away out of a vessel with a hole in its bottom, and the grey replacing it, signifying emptiness. Since the train belongs to BLU, and is part of the offensive, I believe the red colour introduces some confusion over the mechanic. Especially when in TF2, we are used to seeing blue energy bars draining away, in MvM and against bosses. Having red and blue in it made it seem more like a control point, to me.
Aside from that, the map is interesting.
Please don't jump on me, TF2maps.
Thanks,
Matty
Next version out. See changelog for notes.
- Dec 15, 2013
- 533
- 802
When defending the second point of the (first?) rotation, it is possible to get up here and see all the BLU players coming in. Normally this isn't a problem but it gives an almost over-powerd ambush spot for pyros since nobody ever looks up. I guess you could playerclip that window so people cannot stand on the edge of it, but for the time being I actually haven't seen anyone using it other than myself. (And maybe defenders could use some help, ya know?)
Oddly enough, those windows are the artifacts of early alpha versions where those windows were open, and there was a balcony there. They were scrapped for this reason: they were RIDICULOUSLY powerful... but a nice aesthetic touch. Right now, they aren't that harmful, so we're not too worried.
b5
+ Added exterior route to upper left level of Stage 2, Point 2.
+ The building between Stage 1, Point 2 and 3 has been made to look not weird.
+ Added extra doorway through buildings separating points 2 and 3 in stage 1.
+ Minor detailing added.
+ Removed a boulder between Stage 1 Point 1 and 2. Replaced it with something else. Spoiler: It's crates.
+ Increased the distance between Stage 1, Point 1 and 2.
+ Increased the distance between Stage 2, Point 1 and 2.
+ Widened the area infront of Stage 1, point 3.
+ Removed a bug where the trigger_hurt on the train would still be active during the time the trap was stunned.
+ Added a nice awning by Stage 2, point 3. It's actually quite nice. Can keep the porch cool during the day, but catch the nice evening breeze. Barring the toxic sludge barrels, it'd be a nice place to have supper, or a read a newspaper.
It's become evident that some extra health and ammo placements have been added. Tell us what you guys think so we can adjust accordingly.
+ Added exterior route to upper left level of Stage 2, Point 2.
+ The building between Stage 1, Point 2 and 3 has been made to look not weird.
+ Added extra doorway through buildings separating points 2 and 3 in stage 1.
+ Minor detailing added.
+ Removed a boulder between Stage 1 Point 1 and 2. Replaced it with something else. Spoiler: It's crates.
+ Increased the distance between Stage 1, Point 1 and 2.
+ Increased the distance between Stage 2, Point 1 and 2.
+ Widened the area infront of Stage 1, point 3.
+ Removed a bug where the trigger_hurt on the train would still be active during the time the trap was stunned.
+ Added a nice awning by Stage 2, point 3. It's actually quite nice. Can keep the porch cool during the day, but catch the nice evening breeze. Barring the toxic sludge barrels, it'd be a nice place to have supper, or a read a newspaper.
It's become evident that some extra health and ammo placements have been added. Tell us what you guys think so we can adjust accordingly.
b6 - August 31st, 2014
+ Fade distances!
+ Blood curdling screams!
+ Adjusted a doorway (Fancy, right?)
+ Red now use their forward spawn in stage 1 until after point 2 has been capped. We'll be keeping an eye on this change and how it affects the difficulty of 1-2. If you have feedback on, please tell us!
+ Red's respawn time for 1-1 and 1-2 has been adjusted to reflect the above change
+ Rebuilt secondary spawn for red's final point, stage 2.
+ Reworked trap timer entities to show the time until impact on the HUD.
+ Added overtime back in. The final 10% of train health still has the same effect as it does in b5, blu can stop the trap, but red can only stop point capture progression, not restart the trap.
+ Roughly halved delay before initial trap activation. (That is, the trap doesn't get stunned as long. All times were basically halved)
+ Changed snow surfaceprop to dirt (Removes footprint and snow puff effect)
+ All pickup overlays now match existing white-health, red-ammo conventions.
+ Adjusted HP/Ammo in some locations so they weren't as dense.
As per the very angry group of people who requested it, there is now a DL link in the main post.
+ Fade distances!
+ Blood curdling screams!
+ Adjusted a doorway (Fancy, right?)
+ Red now use their forward spawn in stage 1 until after point 2 has been capped. We'll be keeping an eye on this change and how it affects the difficulty of 1-2. If you have feedback on, please tell us!
+ Red's respawn time for 1-1 and 1-2 has been adjusted to reflect the above change
+ Rebuilt secondary spawn for red's final point, stage 2.
+ Reworked trap timer entities to show the time until impact on the HUD.
+ Added overtime back in. The final 10% of train health still has the same effect as it does in b5, blu can stop the trap, but red can only stop point capture progression, not restart the trap.
+ Roughly halved delay before initial trap activation. (That is, the trap doesn't get stunned as long. All times were basically halved)
+ Changed snow surfaceprop to dirt (Removes footprint and snow puff effect)
+ All pickup overlays now match existing white-health, red-ammo conventions.
+ Adjusted HP/Ammo in some locations so they weren't as dense.
As per the very angry group of people who requested it, there is now a DL link in the main post.
- Jul 22, 2009
- 1,874
- 1,258
there is such a convention?
I unno. YM noticed that they have been doing that in the more recent maps, so did it for this. If I had my way I was going to have custom overlays that were Ammo and HP icons
Trotim
aa
- Jul 14, 2009
- 1,195
- 1,045
So now when you walk through snow it won't look like snow? Why are we listening to the "snow = low fps" people
About the same time I looked at my fps during play to see what's causing dips.
Cactus Canyon is where I noticed it first, then I saw it in bigrock.
Maps that follow this convention:
Bigrock
Coaltown
Decoy
Mannhattan (blue/red for ammo)
Mannworks
Rottenburn
Cactus Canyon
Doomsday (blue/red for ammo)
Barnblitz (Breaks convention for health kits on snow)
Asteroid - half does
Recent maps that don't:
Foundry (white for everything)
Kong King
Standin
Process
Gullywash
So going backwards in time and excluding the halloween reskins of older maps, there have only been two Valve maps and three community maps that have broken this convention since June 2011.
I'd say it's a pretty well established convention.
1 Valve, 4 community break this. Kong king is 3DNJ's.
Really, there ought to be a client command for this by now, if not a setting in the actual options menu. You should bring this up next time you talk to Valve; explain the situation and how dumb that workaround is and maybe they'll actually do it and then you can change it back.