[WIP] CP_Avanti_District

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by grazr, May 21, 2008.

  1. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Or something else for the name, i don't really want to just steal the title "Avanti". Seems rude. :p

    So here's another avanti remake. *\o/* goes everyone. To be honest i tried to make a blog because I didn't want to make a thread about it yet but i was too stupid to figure out how; or maybe i need to be some special member who's donated or contributed in some manner to the site? Otherwise i'm special in a completely alternative sense.

    First a couple of things. I suppose this is looking a lot like a quarry site the way things are going, i might just delete the blue spawn and make a great big hole instead. Which would be painful considering the amount of times i've reworked it. But it would be simply enough and effective.

    So my map seems to be suffering from a number of things, one of them being
    "trim" mania. The buildings are tall and the wood texture gets boring, the trims break it up nicely but they just clutter up the screen somewhat in places. I'll have to get some people in a server to see whether it confuses the scene because i'm just looking at the environment on my own here. People will possibly be concentrating on the enemies!

    The lighting is terrible I KNOW. I can't seem to find a nice environement setting, or atleast i had a nice rotation for the sun, but it's either make everything look nice for the attackers, or make it look nice for the defender's, ha ha. I'll have to go through a number of props and turn the shadows off also, they look quite terrible.

    The huds a mess, i can see that, i'm not sure what the hell has happened there but i'll sort it ;) on with the screen shots then.

    I'll deffinately have to shove in some spotlights over the first cp with them all pointing at the cp, it should be nice and pretty then. I'll also need to sort out how the buildings interact at the top left corner, it's awefully "bogded".
    [​IMG]

    The wall on the left needs some sprucing up, though i got stuck for idea's here, and i hesitated to throw a bunch of overlays at it. The lower section was brick in a previous compile, i think i prefered that, but then this whole section looking monotonous being surrounded by brick walls on all sides.
    [​IMG]

    Here's a look at the spawn doors from the defender's perspective. Comments welcome.
    [​IMG]

    Just below the second cp, looking back to where the attackers shall pursue from. The sloped pathway, through the building on the left or rocket jump over the cliff on the left. I always liked the idea of sacrificing some health to get directly to the second cp pretty much from outside the spawn on this map, so i tried to keep this factor alive.
    [​IMG]

    The view as you exit the large gates, i do like this screenshot. You're looking at the second cp there. The big tower! I hope people don't miss that..
    [​IMG]

    This is new to the layout, instead of an archway, a catwalk. A nice sg position, but i can see the sg pushing it's victims out of it's range before killing them. We'll see later whether this is an issue.
    [​IMG]

    Here's that boring wall again. A make shift shed thing on the left that looked a lot nicer in hammer i have to say. It served to fill up the rather excess space people had to manouver in.
    [​IMG]

    Access to the central building. This route was largely ignored by teams in the past, if the defenders ignored it they were outflanked, if the attackers ignored it they were bottle necked at the well (aka the first image). I wanted to draw some attention to it's existance by placing an alcove with some health and ammo so maybe you could put an sg here or just be one of those camping soldiers. Either way i opened the space. It's wider also because hw guy would park his fat arse here alot, which was a cheap way of defending this route.
    [​IMG]

    Coming out from that central building to cp2.
    [​IMG]

    In sumary the first area is being finalised, i just need to finish the spawn area and decide whether i like it. Then add some lights and figure out what i'm gonna do with the excess trimmings around my buildings.

    The second area (cp 3 and 4) is already under contruction, screen shots will follow when i've fixed the gates, lights and stuff in the first area. Other than that i think some of the roof slates are too thick and it looks a bit blocky at times. I suppose it's your turn to pick holes in it now.

    EDIT: Some area's i forgot to mention, what was the deadend ramp where that boring wall is, is now this access tunnel that leads to a position overlooking that make shift shed, it serves as an excellent sg position, but is easily outflanked.
    .1. Above cp2 .2. Blue spawn .3. The window overlooking the shed .4. Access Tunnel leading to said window.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
  2. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I wouldnt say its suffering from the trims as such, more the fact that you've exclusively used wood, get some concrete and metal in there (look at the final stage of dustbowl, its still definatly red's theme but its all concrete and metal)
    Your lighting looks fine, the only thing I'd say is that it doesnt 'sparkle' but I'm not sure how you would go about making it sparkle. (try using a brighter skybox texture, what are you using now, I dont recognise it?)
    The start up gates seen in pic #3 need thier shadows disabled (where ever you put the sun)
    Last pic, that inside area needs to be made slightly lighter
    Cliff texture - repeats too often, make it a little larger
    Overall I'd say you need a bigger variety(and quantity) of props. I'd add lots of stuff just below roof level like the speaker model (search 'siren') or wires, lots of wires (move_rope and keyframe_rope)

    There was a thread or two a few months back about the hud problem, do a search for it.

    Avanti means 'ahead' or 'press onwards' or something like that in italian (so I believe) why not try some latin alternatives as a name for your map if you don't want to use avanti:
    exorior
    exertus
    progressus
    promovi
    protinus
    grassor

    Overall: looking good so far :thumbup1:
     
  3. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Thanks, i understand what you mean about the wood, i have been using metal in the second area, i guess i could make some more of those buildings with reddish metal. Personally i liked the strata of that cliff texture, i guess i could stretch it though.

    Skybox is sky_well_o1.
     
  4. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    might help to make some of the roofs a more blue or grey metal. That'll break up the red without making it look like a blue area.

    I agree the skybox tex could be better, you need clouds.

    Lookin cool though
     
  5. Juice

    Juice L4: Comfortable Member

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    Holy Shit, this looks awesome!!! I wish I had the design skills you have.
     
  6. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Wow that looks good!

    I played the original Avantu once, and really liked it, I look foward to playing this version.

    And I might add that "Avante", with and E at the end, is the same as Avanti (italian) but in portuguese and spanish, if you need a different name :p
     
  7. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I'll try another skybox then. After all i suppose Well is an Urban environment and this is more like dustbowl. I'll give the cables a shot too but i always found them a little overwpowering/distracting, which is why i have avoided them thus far. Thanks for the compliments guys, though as Youme said, "it doesn't sparkle" and i know exactly what he means. I need it to shine!

    Avanti was my favourite map along with casbah which is why i wanted to remake it and hopefully do it some justice. Casbah would be an awesome map to remake especially in contrasting the bases but i think possibly we need to see something new.
     
  8. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    Heh, looks a lot better than my avanti inspired map. Is it going to be round based, or just a straight shot?
     
  9. Narkissus

    Narkissus L5: Dapper Member

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    You should look into using props for the train tracks instead of overlay, it just looks funky having a 2d track there.
     
  10. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I was thinking a straight shot like the original but i could try a number of things to make it play smoother or last longer. Once it's finished i might try and sort out a system of flag carrying like the original but i'll probably want to move on to another project by then. What's different is now anyone can cap the point rather than an individual flag carrier so i'm afraid the attackers might progress too quickly. If it's balanced enough though it shouldn't matter too much, I hope.

    That train track is on the wood texture already, but on the dirt it is an overlay. I had put track models on the wood at one point but it kinda defeated the object of having the wood/train track texture in the first place, and they didn't align either. What I'll have to do is go back and replace the wood texture, remove the overlay on the dirt and put down the track model. I was just old fashioned enough to like that texture :p I'll improve that though.
     
  11. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    When valve used that wood texture with the track on it they had a model for the track itself on top of that (and let the sleepers be the texture) but you can't really do the same because the track model is way too long, I'd then either use a brush to emulate the track or swap the texture out for normal wood and use a model with sleepers as well.

    If you pick a different skybox make sure you pick you're fog and light_environment settings to match. whilst the colours and sun brightness/angle dont have to be exactly the same if they aren't similar it will look odd. (for example the goldrush sky has very definate sun angle and if you tried to use a different one everything would look very very strange indeed)
    I think you need some more metal in there, this time I mean more metal trims/beams don't replace any of the wooden trims or beams, just add some more structual support with a bit of metal.

    3rd pic up from bottom (excluding one from hammer) the area of wood the shadow from the metal window thing should have a low lightmap scale, posibly 8? but of course you dont want to alter the lm scale until you're sure of a light_env settings
     
  12. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    The way the original worked, it took about 1 minute for the flag to respawn. COuld always lock out the next CP for a minute or so (setup ish time).
     
  13. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Yea, well i noticed that on cp_well the train track is actually a displacement so i was considering doing that, that way i could make it any length i wanted.

    I was about to say i havn't even touched the light maps but when flicking into that mode i had for most of the first section infact. What i had done was spin the sun about 140 degrees last minute so the light map scales really are on the wrong walls -.- I'll need to return it to 16, from 32. But i'll need to fix the lighting source first. I wont be making that hasty mistake again.

    EDIT: Locking the points sounds like an alright idea, gives the defenders enough time to set up defences without the aid of a new round with round gates. If things don't work out properly though it shouldn't be too difficult fitting in another round at the mid section as there are only 2 entrances to the next area. A lot of the time with people capping the first cp in a zerg rush like attack the second point was normally left to it's own devices whilst the defender's moved back to the next bulwark, basically the 2 choke points between 2 and 3, as 3 was almost impossible defend unless with a completely mobile force of soldiers and heavies.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2008
  14. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    its a displacement!?!? wow they had me fooled, I assumed it was a model, damn these guys are really freakin sneaky with their displacements!
     
  15. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Hold up, cp_well's tracks might be a model, it was cp_badlands that had the displacement train tracks. I have yet to decompile cp_well and have a look around. Yea, Some of the roofs in Dustbowl are displacements too, i thought they had left that to DoD maps, weird thing is the roofs are too far away to even notice the curving of the displacements and are on roofs that you have to be at the egde of the map and looking somewhere there's no need to look at to actually see them, so i'm not sure what they were trying to achieve there?
     
  16. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    It is noticable ingame, there are dustbowl and goldrush displacement rooves (that I've noticed ingame before in hammer)
    Its a neat tactic to make them less blocky (I think most people do thier rooves too thick 4 units should be enough)
     
  17. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Yea? I assumed they would have but the roofs were quite thin, i mean i hadn't really noticed and i had a look in hammer just to find out really. Aswell as look at other things.

    The hud is fixed and i've made it so that first cap issues no faster respawn, second reduces spawn wait by 3 seconds and third by 5. I might change this to 5 and 7 though, it all depends; since i don't have advanced spawns. We'll have to see how fast it takes people to get places as a group.

    Added some of those sirens you mentioned, It did a nice treat.
    [​IMG]

    Added some lights over first cp but it still needs to be brighter. I finally have an idea to make the building look more believable on the inside, and less open. Looks like i'll need to mess up those displacements a little too, looking awefully flat.
    [​IMG]

    I changed the colour of the wood but i'm not sure. IT looks nicer from this angle but the other it looks out of place somewhat. I'd change the building above that make-shift shed from wood to metal but then it doesn't fit the brick texture underneath, or maybe i'm thinking too much about it. I'll try experimenting. That tall tower will probably look better when i replace that wood trim i left at the top. Think i'll put a water tower pertruding from the top also. Plus thin out that red roof on the left.
    [​IMG]

    Here's that ramp up to the sg position. (The window in the second image).
    [​IMG]

    Room next to the "sg" vantage window. You think it needs to be lighter?
    [​IMG]
    Some construction i've been doing on the other side of the cliff. cp 3 above and to the right. A scout can actually clear the distance between the wooden building on the left and the cp with his double jump. This looks like the most fun part of the map to defend so far :p
    [​IMG]

    Hopefully when i've optimised this section it wont be rendering the other side of the map.. i'm not even sure how it's managing that either since it's quite tightly nipped around several corners. Not that it's even touching my fps rate by rendering it.

    EDIT: I can only assume it renders world geometry behind the skybox texture? (There are no detail props showing). I'll try using nodraw more extensively behind the cliffs and such, instead of the skybox texture.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2008
  18. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Those sirens come in two colours, check the 'skin' keyvalue ;)
     
  19. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Looks very nice mate :) gj
     
  20. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    First, apologies for the hammer shots. I havn't had much time to come and prod this project due to "life" but here are some construction and layout shots. I'll get some ingame asap since i know you guys prefer ingame (well obviously).

    This is mostly to show i havn't forgotten abou this and hopefully you lot too. To be honest, most of my time has been spent tweaking details which has destracted me from actually completing the bulk of my map. Most of the tweaking came in the form of fixing up the tunnel that seperates area 1 (cp1 and 2) from area 2 (cp3 and 4). Which ironicly, all this displacement work will be deleted to make way for a more efficient building construction... /sigh. But sacrifices must be made for major improvements.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So this is mostly cp3 area work, which i have to say is looking somewhat better than the first area, which i have retextured significantly too.

    P.S. Once again, sorry for the hammer shots. They are terrible but i wanna show something so that people can maybe say something and get me motivated to get stuck in again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008