The Mayann Project

[RaVaGe]

@RaVaGe I meant the ones YM created, were you the one who ripped them from his map?

Sorry but no, I don't even know what textures you're talking about tbh. The purpose of this library is only to gather some pre-existent materials that might fight for a mayan theme that's it.

 

[Muddy]

Me last week: "I don't feel like making a map for this project."

Me today:

Obviously still WIP, there's only blue spawn --> first control point so far and also none of the structures have roofs :~)

 

[YM]

@RaVaGe Previous thread page: http://tf2maps.net/posts/367515/
@Another Crowbar it was @14bit who seemed most interested out of anyone

Had some models this weekend, pack's taking shape

 

[Aeix]

Had some models this weekend, pack's taking shape

Don't go too quick godamn it, I still need to work on my map!
I'm pretty hyped for this pack tho

 

[Snowbat]

By the way, in case I hadn't said so yet, if MvM maps are permitted, I'd like to submit my map for this project:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=528867291

 

[YM]

@Snowbat it's 10000000% up to valve what's 'permitted'

 

[Snowbat]

@Snowbat it's 10000000% up to valve what's 'permitted'

I meant if the project leader was ok with having an MvM map in it

 

[Beenut]

oh boy at this rate it wont look like the original theme :U i mean i guess itll have to be tropical theme only at this point

 

[Aeix]

I guess I may as well join in the trend of posting WIP screenshots of Mayann maps:
~screenshots incoming~

Its an arena map I'm working on, and I wanted to do some cool stuff with it too make it stand out. Because it's an arena map, the control point isn't enabled until right at the end of the round, so I figured that the big "stela" in the middle of the map should explode (the loosing team probably blew it up out of jealousy) revealing the control point. Here is the "before and after" treatment in screenshots:
Before:

After:

EDIT: really should have put this in the original, but a big thanks to @DrLambda as he has helped me with all my questions to do with logic in hammer over the course of this project, and his article on the logic of koth_leveled was extremely helpfull too!

 

[Snowbat]

Oh by the way, gentlemen, one of my pet peeves, is sound. I love doing ambient sound that fits. I often even go as far as to posting on a bird or animal expert forum saying "I make a video game level set at X time of the day, in Y location, what birds or animals would I most likely find there?" and then I google sounds for these animals, convert them and use them.

So if anyone wants my help with this, please tell me. My map for this project (probably never gonna be accepted by Valve since it's MvM anyway) is 99.5% done so I got time to help people out with whatever.

 

[YM]

I meant if the project leader was ok with having an MvM map in it

I'm not sure what part of this you didn't understand?

@Snowbat it's 10000000% up to valve what's 'permitted'

The project leader (JPRAS) has nothing to do with what could get selected by Valve. He's taking cosmetics to use in the SFM short but other than that everything is decided by Valve if and when they want to have this be an official community update. If it happens, Valve will take what they like from the workshop.

probably never gonna be accepted by Valve since it's MvM

Let me level with you: That's totally false and you shouldn't keep telling yourself that. If you want to improve as an artist you need to recognise your shortcomings and learn to address them, rather than blaming some other thing.

Yucatan isn't hampered by being MvM, it's true that Valve haven't taken any MvM maps from the workshop yet, but if they were going to, I doubt they'd be taking Yucatan. Yucatan is really hampered by the fact it's kinda ultra-bland and boxy. It just isn't on par with other maps that Valve have accepted from the workshop. There's a ton you could do to improve how that map looks to bring it in line with Valve quality maps. I'm not trying to shit all over what you've done, I'm trying to push you in the direction of recognising where it falls short and making it better. The base work for Yucatan is great, what it lacks is visual polish. I hope over the next few months you'll take the time to give Yucatan some more work, it'd be awesome to have an MvM map picked as well, and you already have a leg up over people starting from scratch.

 

[Snowbat]

I'm not sure what part of this you didn't understand?

I used to work for a project that had a project leader that could reject or pass maps so that's why I was asking. But if you say Valve is the only one to decide, that's good.

Let me level with you: That's totally false and you shouldn't keep telling yourself that. If you want to improve as an artist you need to recognise your shortcomings and learn to address them, rather than blaming some other thing.

I just find it unlikely that Valve will accept anything MvM related, seeing how it would require loot specific for the map and whatnot. Unless they add it for non-Mann Up (Boot Camp, where's there's not loot, much like Ghost Town)

I'm not trying to shit all over what you've done, I'm trying to push you in the direction of recognising where it falls short and making it better. The base work for Yucatan is great, what it lacks is visual polish. I hope over the next few months you'll take the time to give Yucatan some more work, it'd be awesome to have an MvM map picked as well, and you already have a leg up over people starting from scratch.

Yep. I was planning to add more detail anyway since I'm no longer bound to the Iron Gauntlet deadline. And now with E-Arkham's models, I have enough shit to work with
I didn't take it as you shitting all over the map by the way. I took it as constructive criticism.
Though if you could indicate which parts of the map you think are the most blatantly bland, that'd help.

 

[fubarFX]

**disclaimer, this post is based on my limited knowledge and intuition. I may be completely wrong**

@Snowbat

well, jpras is sort of doing curation for the workshop collection. But I imagine the only thing they want to keep out is everyone's back catalog of barely fitting reskins from 2012 that are getting rebranded for mayann. I don't think we need to worry. Even if somehow your map doesn't make it in the collection, I'm sure valve will take notice if it is a standout. There's only so many maps to go around. The way I see it, the collection is more of a suggestion list.

Now, here are my feelings about mvm maps.

Mvm maps kind of are a different beast since mvm maps have their own monetization model. While there's no real reason why mvm maps should be kept out of the update, there's a couple things that are worth considering. For one, I'm not entirely sure Valve has figured out the nitty-gritty of how they want to handle community mvm maps but the good news is they probably gave it some thought with the event of Iron Gauntlet. I have very little insight on what Valve is up to, but I'm going to guess that this is the problems they are facing. Splitting mann up ticket revenues (and possibly surplus vouchers) is very tricky, even if it sounds like a simple/obvious solution. The perfect model would be to get revenues from mannup tickets used on your map, that's just what makes the most sense. It makes sense for mappers, it makes sense for players, it's something that should just work. Unfortunately it's not all that simple, mann co store revenues are always split upon item sale, not item usage. That's part of the reason why we have a stupid amount of different keys, you can direct a key's money toward the community crate it opens upon its sale. If all keys are just going to be the same price, we should really only have one key for all crates but the system is set up so revenues are split upon item sale, not usage. That's just how things are atm, and I'm of the opinion that the user the user experience for the consumer is suffering from it. If mann up tickets were to follow the trend set by keys, that would mean community mvm maps would each get their individual tickets. Can we agree that this would be utter madness? getting a team of 6 people, each with their ticket, is already enough of a clusterfuck. On top of that, the mvm lobby system simply wouldn't allow that to happen. Imagine voting for what mvm map you want to play, welcome to literal UI hell. Maybe Valve has a solution, but we haven't seen it yet.

The alternative solution is to act as if the map was just part of the community update/campaign and just ignore the mann up money. The fairness of Valve getting all the mann up revenue would be debatable but I'm not going to go into that, could be that mann up money is not even sustainable, I don't have the data. Ethics aside, I'm just going to say that it would definitely feel like a missed opportunity at getting map monetization right.

With all that speculation, all I can say is that Valve has some figuring out to do and that they might not be ready to accept community mvm maps. It then becomes your burden to convince them that your map is worth their effort. It's grim, but if I had to guess, I don't think they'll sink their teeths into that until matchmaking is done. But don't let that stop you from making a great map, go for it and give it your all.

godspeed

 

[Snowbat]

I have no idea about what i'm doing lmao

This shit looks fucking amazing. Would you mind sharing your fog and light_environment settings with us?

 

[Simulacron]

What will be included in the mayan pack? Are there only materials or models for mayan structures or also things like trees and plants?

 

[RaVaGe]

This shit looks fucking amazing. Would you mind sharing your fog and light_environment settings with us?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4055243/Ravage's maps/Mayan_rav.vmf

Pretty sure that the lighting can be tweaked to looks better but here you are. (right click save as)

 

[Werewolf]

This just popped up on my Facebook so others might have seen this too, but for those that haven't it might give you some ideas: http://www.iflscience.com/environment/enormous-volcanic-eruption-almost-finished-mayan-civilization

 

[nickybakes]

So I was thinking, and I got an idea. It incorporates cp_snowplow's train-cp gamemode, where Blu is stealing ancient artifacts from a museum, and Red has to stop them (maybe red owns the museum). Instead of a train, it is a van (or a vehicle of some sort) full of the artifacts. The first stage consists of Blu trying to get to the museum to pull off the heist. The second stage is Blu driving away with all their loot. Both stages have Red trying to stop them. I might change the museum idea to maybe a pyramid or tomb type thing, but I think this idea will give a little change in map themes, as its different than the jungle that I see a lot of people going for.

 

[Jekyllson]

So I was thinking, and I got an idea. It incorporates cp_snowplow's train-cp gamemode, where Blu is stealing ancient artifacts from a museum, and Red has to stop them (maybe red owns the museum). Instead of a train, it is a van (or a vehicle of some sort) full of the artifacts. The first stage consists of Blu trying to get to the museum to pull off the heist. The second stage is Blu driving away with all their loot. Both stages have Red trying to stop them. I might change the museum idea to maybe a pyramid or tomb type thing, but I think this idea will give a little change in map themes, as its different than the jungle that I see a lot of people going for.

Honestly? It's not a half-bad idea. But considering how few people actually play on the maps they vote for or against on the Steam Workshop, and considering how wildly unpopular Snowplow is in the community, I would really discourage you from associating your map with it if you want to have a good chance of your map getting accepted into the game.

 

[YM]

What will be included in the mayan pack? Are there only materials or models for mayan structures or also things like trees and plants?

This is what I have on my PC right now, not at all a final list, there's still a lot left to come:

• Textures:
  • Brick - 32u tall
    • Clean, mossy top, mossy bottom
  • Brick - 16u tall
    • Clean, mossy top, mossy bottom
  • Stone ground (similar to poured concrete but... like a mayan temple version)
  • Stone beam texture (intended to be stretched to fit a larger stone size, has 4 rows, each with different moss coverings)
  • Mossy patch overlay
  • Stone rubble blend texture (Intended to work both as rubble pile and as wall interiors, blends to the same style of moss)
  • Mud-mud blend texture (reuse of existing materials, just a new blend)
  • Cliff wall
    • No blend, blended to grass, blended to mud
  • Jungle skybox (currently a very simple gradient blend, hopefully an artist on the team will work on this)
• Models:
  • Brick rubble
    • 4 piles mixing large/small bricks
    • 3 piles just using the small bricks (these ones are... of debatable quality and I may remake them)
    • 3 destroyed wall sections (made for Ququmannz but will work elsewhere)
  • Doorways (currently unfinished, will be team coloured)
    • 128 wide / 192 wide (fits standard shutter spawn door) / 320 wide
  • Frieze (trim, also unfinished, also team coloured)
    • 16 / 32 / 64 / 128 / 256 / inside corner / outside corner
  • Rocks (match cliff texture)
    • 6 unique shapes, each with small / med / large versions
    • 2 ground rubble clusters
  • Foliage
    • Palm trees
      • Straight / slanted / bendy versions
    • 2 bushy shrubs
    • Rock tree (fits exactly over rock_01 and has lovely rooty goodness)
    • Ququmannz unique trees (may or may not be included in the pack, they're kinda specific)
    • Ququmannz cave roots (again, possibly too specific to distribute in good conscience)

Foliage is being worked on currently

Props yet to come or still being worked on (not all may arrive, so don't take this as set in stone!!):

• Golden idol from the video
• Ququmannz specific payload cart
• Animated replacement for props_trainyard/train_billboard001_sm.md that points one way, then crumbles to point the other way
• Trees, jungle skycards and cenote vines
• Skybox temples (I need two for ququmannz and team coloured ones for Sacrifice)
• ALSO SOME CURRENTLY SECRET STUFF!

Since this isn't a total conversion there's lots of props and models that you'll want to use from stock TF2, here's my recommendations:

• Textures:
  • cp_mountainlab/nature/groundtograss001 (matches the ground and mud blends for the cliff)
  • pl_barnblitz/woodwall_darkbrown001
    
  • cp_manor/wood_beam03b_burnt
    
  • swamp/water/water_murky
    
  • pl_barnblitz/woodwall_redworn002d
• Models:
  • props_swamp/shrub_03b.mdl (03b and 03_cluster too)
    
  • props_viaduct_event/spooky_tree_cards03.mdl
    
  • props_foliage/shrub_01a.mdl (02a too)