TF2Maps.net Mapping Contest #7: Payload (Dynamic element)

[Sel]

You have plr_atoll_b1 on there twice.

Because it is the best map in the contest, obviously.

But yeah, thanks for catching that.

 

[ForbiddenDonut]

Feel disappointed to be eliminated before the main round, but it was to be expected.

Wolfen, you should be extremely proud that you actually managed to make something. Game design contests generally never have to do with winning: it's about getting people to come out and be creative.

Take the knowledge you gained from making the first map, and apply it to the second. And then from the second, the third. And so on.

There is no losing when gaining knowledge. It's all winning.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

It was a fun contest and I wish the final 10 the best of luck.

pl_quagmire
pl_escarpment_rc1
pl_moonlit_b6
pl_curve_b8
pl_gloryhole_b1
pl_stroika_b1
pl_clifftop_b1
pl_clastic_heights
pl_volcanic_a20

(You have 9)

 

[Wolfen]

(You have 9)

Wanted to play Sidetracked before I made a final decision. It was a short, enjoyable payload race map. Any longer and I felt it might have too long.

Also I retried Red Hiding Wood. Hiding Woods still seems to crash my game upon initial loading. I've seen people playing it, is this something on my end or is this something to do with the map? I'd like to give it a fair chance but the crashes keep me from doing so.

 

[[OzG] Roo Bert]

Wanted to play Sidetracked before I made a final decision. It was a short, enjoyable payload race map. Any longer and I felt it might have too long.

Also I retried Red Hiding Wood. Hiding Woods still seems to crash my game upon initial loading. I've seen people playing it, is this something on my end or is this something to do with the map? I'd like to give it a fair chance but the crashes keep me from doing so.

Wolfen, what message do you get, if any, when pl_redhidingwoods crashes your system?

 

[grazr]

Roo Bert, you get to choose 10 maps. You only chose 5 and mentioned a further 4 for a total of 9.

 

[Wolfen]

Wolfen, what message do you get, if any, when pl_redhidingwoods crashes your system?

No message, I get the never ending loading screen and the game stops responding.

I believe when loading it from the developer console it just states that it's loading before freezing up and when loading it through a local server it also does the same thing. Also had it crash on download when I deleted it and tried to redownload the map from TF2maps.net's server.

No idea what is causing it but for some reason my game really doesn't want me to play that map. lol

Edit:

Also I was wondering, will there be a second preliminary vote to narrow down the votes of those that tie for the 10th place?

 

[ics]

Also I was wondering, will there be a second preliminary vote to narrow down the votes of those that tie for the 10th place?

Why have another while you could just rate the rest of the maps and be done with it. It doesn't need to be 10 entries, it might aswell be 14.

 

[PMAvers]

Because apparently I'm insane, I'm going to be running all the contest entries on my server for a while/until we get sick of them.

208.167.243.68:27015

 

[grazr]

Speaking of which, i should probably update the stock rotation to the contest maps. Not sure what people think of this, it's worked out in the past with our feature maps and should give a greater sense of community if that makes any sense to people... that they're constantly running.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Speaking of which, i should probably update the stock rotation to the contest maps. Not sure what people think of this, it's worked out in the past with our feature maps and should give a greater sense of community if that makes any sense to people... that they're constantly running.

Rav and harribo are waaaaaay ahead of you.

 

[Harribo]

Speaking of which, i should probably update the stock rotation to the contest maps. Not sure what people think of this, it's worked out in the past with our feature maps and should give a greater sense of community if that makes any sense to people... that they're constantly running.

we sorted that out last week, been running the rotation ever since

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Ravidge]

Preliminary voting will end in 2 days from now
Meaning you have this weekend to finish up your votes (remember it's "up to 10", you don't need to list exactly 10 maps).

Here's a handy timer
Prelimiary voting timer!

 

[grazr]

we sorted that out last week, been running the rotation ever since

Edit: Ninja'd

Really? When ever i join at the start of an impromptu it's some random non-contest map that the server was stuck on from a previous event.

 

[Melvin D Engineere]

My thoughts on these contest entries so far:

pl_quagmire
+Definitely nailed the swamp theme on this map
-Having TNT at every checkpoint kills BLU’s momentum and the gimmick feels like an after thought

pl_rust_b2
+Clean look, snow theme works well
-The map in general is pretty basic

pl_vesper_b4
+Clean look
-BLU’s first spawn very vulnerable to spawn camping
-First area is wide open.

pl_mines_a2
+Ambitious concept of branching payload tracks
-Too obviously an early alpha map
-Branching element messes up payload HUD
-Underwater route for cart

pl_escarpment_rc1
-Haven’t played this map since b7, but I liked the map back then. Chances are that I will enjoy the RC1 version as well.

plr_atoll_b1
+Unique theme in area prior to turntables
-Unfinished detailing after turntables

pl_moonlit_b6
+One of a kind dynamic element: you go to the underworld!
-Even for a Halloween map, it looks too somber

pl_curve_b8
+Nice mountainous look
-Dynamic elements beyond the roll zones feel like an afterthought

pl_underdam_v1
-Not sure what the dynamic elements were supposed to be beyond the roll zones
-Fixed teleporters at BLU spawn are a bad idea: destination is basically blind
-Cart should not be blocking RED’s forward spawn
-Small doorways along main cart path
-Pillar room is confusing
-BLU should not have to go underwater to leave their forward spawn to get back to the main playing field

plr_frostfell_b1b
-Haven’t played this map since a6, but I enjoyed it back then. I'll probably like this version too.

pl_shenmue_release
+Unique theme
-Chokepoints for flanks
-No forward spawn for BLU

pl_ravine
-First area is ridiculously sniper friendly
-Name suggests it’s arena_ravine as payload when it’s not
-Unclear dynamic element
-Too many cliffs where pyros can airblast enemies off the map
-Not aesthetically pleasing to the eye

pl_sunken_rocket_b1
Played an earlier version but not the current version.

pl_gloryhole_b1
Played an earlier version but not the current version.

pl_stroika_b1
+The building tracks part after the first checkpoint is a clever idea
-Overall, this map went overboard with dynamic elements: there’s just too many of them

pl_redhidingwoods
+The name
-Not optimized
-BLU gets trapped in their forward spawn because exit doors won’t open
-Full sized train on cart tracks...really?

pl_clifftop_b1
+Beautiful map
-Definite uphill battle for BLU, perhaps Lil’ Chew Chew (if permitted) would've been useful here

pl_overcast_a2
-A big map just for the sake of being big

plr_runway_rc1
+Unique ending
Rollback zones with a Capital R
-Map heavily favors snipers, soldiers, and demomen
-Could use more alternate routes

pl_volcanic_a20
+Screams 'volcano theme!'
-Huge sightline just before checkpoint 3, steam does little to hinder snipers

pl_clastic_heights
+The drawbridge is a unique dynamic element
-Blind spawn for BLU at the beginning
-Extreme height variation, map heavily favors soldiers and demomen
-Very open, and too sniper friendly
-Unclear as to how to change cart path

plr_sidetracked_rc
+Small size makes it difficult for people to get lost
-I think it’s too small for 24 players. I can only imagine what will happen when 32 players try to play this map.
-only rollback zones for dynamic elements
-Outside perimeter is practically flat

I did not get a chance to play pl_alpine_forest_rc2, pl_creekcrossing_a21, plr_barnstorm_a1, pl_powerpack_a9, or pl_rockpass_b1d in any shape or form.

 

[Draco18s]

pl_mines_a2
+Ambitious concept of branching payload tracks
-Too obviously an early alpha map
-Branching element messes up payload HUD
-Underwater route for cart

Just asking:
What, exactly, is messed up about the HUD?

I know that before setup ends it shows only the start and end, but that was the only way I could insure it wasn't completely FUBAR. Post-setup it should function perfectly.

As for the water, I wanted to make my own water shader, so that it wasn't so much of a blind edge entering and leaving, but I was having so many issues trying to see changes. :\
(I'd get it to change, and it'd be "too much" and I'd try to pull back and the next compile wouldn't look any different. I'd undo ALL CHANGES and it'd still not change)
I know that water routes are kind of taboo, but I thought I'd give it a go anyway.

 

[Melvin D Engineere]

Just asking:
What, exactly, is messed up about the HUD?

I know that before setup ends it shows only the start and end, but that was the only way I could insure it wasn't completely FUBAR. Post-setup it should function perfectly.

The HUD before setup was basically the biggest issue.

As for the water, I wanted to make my own water shader, so that it wasn't so much of a blind edge entering and leaving, but I was having so many issues trying to see changes. :\
(I'd get it to change, and it'd be "too much" and I'd try to pull back and the next compile wouldn't look any different. I'd undo ALL CHANGES and it'd still not change)
I know that water routes are kind of taboo, but I thought I'd give it a go anyway.

Water routes are frowned upon not because of blind entry and exit alone. Most TF2 players despise these routes because of the mere fact they even exist. Consider these factors (and others from this thread):
-TF2 players usually look for enemies in front of them. With most water routes, players now have to watch EVERY direction to avoid being ambushed.
-the Pyros' become next to useless not only underwater but in areas near water because players can easily extinguish themselves
-Water also reduces everyone's speed.
-Other weapons cannot be used underwater (e.g. The Huntsman)

 

[Draco18s]

The HUD before setup was basically the biggest issue.

Alright.

Water routes are frowned upon not because of blind entry and exit alone. Most TF2 players despise these routes because of the mere fact they even exist. Consider these factors (and others from this thread):

I've read that thread.

-TF2 players usually look for enemies in front of them. With most water routes, players now have to watch EVERY direction to avoid being ambushed.

Note that my water area is only tall enough to have the standard 2-dimensionality present in any typical route, bordered both top and bottom by solid walls.

-the Pyros' become next to useless not only underwater but in areas near water because players can easily extinguish themselves

It's a small area in one portion of the map, also optional (if Red wants to use pyros, they use the longer route). The water is far enough away from that route (as well as the second half of the map) that only a scout would even have a CHANCE at surviving by heading for water.

-Water also reduces everyone's speed.

1) There are alternate routes in order to bypass the water
2) The cart moves at a fixed speed which is slower that the player's swim speed
3) One segment exists as an alternate route (and there's a non-water way that parallels it).
4) I took into account slow classes and the amount of "breath" they have and provided an air pocket, so even a heavy can swim the entire length without drowning (unless he's on the cart, in which case it's minor damage that gets healed by the dispenser effect)

-Other weapons cannot be used underwater (e.g. The Huntsman)

See note about pyros.

 

[Ezekel]

Alright.
It's a small area in one portion of the map, also optional (if Red wants to use pyros, they use the longer route). The water is far enough away from that route (as well as the second half of the map) that only a scout would even have a CHANCE at surviving by heading for water.

the major issue here is how do players (most likely pubbers, maybe not even with a unified language) come to a single unified decision over whether to use pyros.

in a first-person-shooter it's important to remember the first-person element. most of your decisions are going to be made relative to you. and even if you're thinking "i'm not like that" - well unfortunately most people are, if only through not stopping to consider it rather than intentional malice.

2nd to this: when you have issues like alternative paths that affect the entire team/server (so gravelpit style situations doesn't count, as the route you choose does not directly prevent other players making their own choice and being just as valid - the CPs are still at the end of each route and both are equally unlocked), someone is going to be selfish or alternatively just plain act like a troll.




edit:
also in regards to water. 2 things that haven't been mentioned:
- people IN water are sitting ducks to people not in water. (especially when it's a heavy shooting at them). you can't dodge, there's diminished cover, and you're further away from ammo/health, even if it's on the bottom of the water.
- sentrys don't work with water very well. have you ever tried building a sentry in the water in the middle of 2fort. try it sometime. sentries don't lock onto players who are on the other side of a water surface.

when i considered this contest, changing-path based PL gameplay did enter my mind, but after a quick thinking session i decided against it for the above reasons. not to mention yyler's point of keeping it immediately obvious and making sure that the HUD doesn't provide incorrect information.

 

[grazr]

- sentrys don't work with water very well. have you ever tried building a sentry in the water in the middle of 2fort. try it sometime. sentries don't lock onto players who are on the other side of a water surface.

I do believe this was patched. A fair while ago in fact.

But that actually just replaces one problem with another. Depending on the water texture being used (various transparencies) people, sentries in particular, are hard too see and even harder to hit. So sentries under water have become particular nuasances when they can shoot out at you and you can barely see it even with a direct line of sight.