Tell me your issues with the CTF Push gametype

[Shmitz]

My problem is with how immediate objective completion is. The reason sentries become a huge issue is because they're the only things capable of reacting fast enough to a flag carrier coming around the corner. The speed at which a point can be capped greatly compresses the line between a point that is too easy and one that is too difficult, and it makes it really hard to design something fun for both teams. One team or the other is going to end up feeling like their task is futile.

 

[BrokenTripod]

OMG, I love the idea of blue flashing lights, and I think it would really change any map that it's included in.

Seriously, though, if you're planning on adding these in the beta stage, I think you should reconsider and add the lights and retest the map now, because it could change the dynamic of your map.

Shmitz has a good point though. I think corners near the CP are really annoying. One map, though, had a window and that was EXTREMELY helpful, as you could foresee when the carrier was going to run in and see which direction he was going.

I don't think NO return time would work, just because there's a lot of possibility of the flag accidentally getting stuck near the enemy spawn, and then it turns into one of those Spawn camping/defending from spawn problems.

 

[Dr. Spud]

Temporary CTF HUD fix to make it less confusing......?!? Maybe?
Bolded so people would notice..I felt like I was ranting.
Basically: Put an intel underneath the CP that is currently active so that the HUD points at the CP that needs to be defended.

That gives me an idea: wouldn't it be easy to use a game_text entity to say "current Capture Point: X" on the side of the screen?

 

[BrokenTripod]

That gives me an idea: wouldn't it be easy to use a game_text entity to say "current Capture Point: X" on the side of the screen?

Yeah, I was actually wondering why this hasn't been done yet. I figured someone else would had thought of it already, though..? No idear.

 

[Icarus]

What if you could always see where the intel is, even through walls? Think something like L4D, or an indicator above the carrier's head that ignores Z

 

[Dr. Spud]

What if you could always see where the intel is, even through walls? Think something like L4D, or an indicator above the carrier's head that ignores Z

That's not a bad idea, but I'm skeptical. They do that with people calling for medic, but with medic icons it switches into an arrow when it's off your screen, and an impromptu intel icon would definitely look inferior.

 

[Icarus]

Doesn't need to be in intel icon. It could be as simple as an arrow or an "!" mark.

 

[uma plata]

Just in general, I don't think there is anything wrong with the mode, just like I don't think anything is wrong with regular CTF. It's the maps

I'm confident good map design can surmount just about any limitations in game mechanics

I'm having a few ideas right now, based on discussion in this thread. Possible I may enter the contest after all

 

[Dr. Spud]

Another idea: What if each cap point acted as a dispenser for Red? This encourages Red to stand on it and block it, and you can still keep it a no-build area.

 

[Icarus]

Unfortunately, there's no way to have it rendered at all times D:

 

[The Political Gamer]

Wow! Dam that is so cool!

 

[BrokenTripod]

It still would probably help a lot for understanding, though. I like it =D

Much harder to miss someone with the intel, unless it's an orange map =P (might blend in)

 

[Dr. Spud]

:\

A bit in-your-face for my tastes.

 

[Icarus]

When I have time later I will make my own texture.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Alot of responsessince mine, I skimmked through them...

I think Mr.MM makes some very good points. I think Valve improved on certian gamemodes with the ones we know, and they work good. I never played TFC so I can't say from experience.

I think probably the main issue here is 12+ people are taking a new gamemode and trying to fine tweak it so it works best, but nobody is exactly sure what that is yet. Obviously when valve did something they had probably no more than 12 people all working together at the same time so it was probably easier for them.

From the maps I played I really don't think that the maps are the issues. I know I have played Icarus', Eeire's(sorry), the snow one... maybe a few more.
I thought they were all fine as far as maps go. They all seem to have several routes, wide open spots, tight spots, high/low, all the things a map should have.

Maybe the 2 major things are:

knowing where the intel is/ which point is capped already/too many stages

HUD - which relates to above.

I think eerie's (I'm gonna get it right) does have signs in the spawn rooms that turn color for point one and two. That is a plus for sure, but it's not obvious like a hud. It's something I kindof caught on my way out of spawn one time. Not in your face like the HUD.

I think a new custom HUD would be 100% better (Valve?)

The Icon over the players head is a great idea, and I think along with a HUD might be a really good way to go. The HUD would show which point is needing to be capped so both teams know what to do. The arrow above player would be a visual clue especially when near the player.
Maybe a little 'overboard' as someone said, but you really do need to focus on that player (both teams) so it might be a nessecary evil.

The griefing thing, well, can't do much about that other than admin kick someone. Luckily most admins on any server would kick for that because it kills the server. Unfortunately players might get sick of it before the kick happens. Or get a bad taste in their mouth which lasts long beyond the playtime of the map.

Having the reset time be long would be an improvement I think. Having it never reset would probably always lead to blu winning. Maybe 30 seconds, maybe a bit more. 60 sec for regular ctf sees the flag return and get capped but 60 seconds everytims could lead to kamakazi pushes winning every time.

The insta cap may also be a problem. It might help lead to sentry farms, but might not be the only cause. Teams still know they are gonna have to set up shop and really protect the point. Maybe if it was 5 second cap teams would loosen up a bit.
But that goes back to everyone trying to figure this out/consistancy.

The good thing about standard maps is everyone has an idea how long a cap is, how long a spawn is. The more each map has it's own take on the rules the harder it is for players to know what to do. If we get used to insta cap engies will always farm. If we get used to 5 sec cap they might not.
But then you get the one map that bends the rules and all of a sudden nobody knows what to do. Should we farm, should we not...

 

[Dr. Spud]

The insta cap may also be a problem. It might help lead to sentry farms, but might not be the only cause. Teams still know they are gonna have to set up shop and really protect the point. Maybe if it was 5 second cap teams would loosen up a bit.
But that goes back to everyone trying to figure this out/consistancy.

We need to work with the instant captures. If you take the intel and have to wait five seconds, then you might as well be playing cp_ .

 

[Kronixx]

Could you make it so it requires the Intel and for example 2 more people on the point to capture?

This would require blue to actually mount an offensive that actually needed to SURVIVE, giving the other players a more solid feeling of purpose. You can get the urgency of "oh shit we really need to protect this runner and get him in there and keep us alive with him" instead of "let's draw as much fire as possible so the runner can slip through this berlin wall of defenses"

just another idea

It could boil down to blue having to organize attack waves so it overloads the sentries with targets and hopefully blue can push the group far enough to get the runner and his protectors onto the point. If the first wave fails, the second wave and bust in and try to salvage the run and pick up the last few yards to victory. This would put immense pressure on red and keep blue pissin' their pants i'm sure

 

[Shmitz]

Here's a half-baked idea that I'll throw out there before I head to bed:

What if Red could somehow take points back? It would give defense good reason to venture out instead of turtling at the last point, and would give Blue general combatants (non-intel carriers) something to focus on besides "here's a last point I have to hang around and kill at".

It would also provide defenders with a strategic option for preventing a quick cap at the last point.

 

[Icarus]

Unfortunately, there's no way to have it rendered at all times D:

Unfortunately, the env_sprite entity hates life. Every time you tell it to do something it kills itself when the round restarts and never comes back.... this includes waitingforplayers.

D:

 

[StoneFrog]

In extension of the idea that CTF A/D capping is too sudden and the fact that it's nearly impossible for defenders to retaliate once the courier gets close enough, perhaps this could be implemented:

A nifty pillar/cage-esque thing surrounding the capture point. When one brings the intel close enough, it causes the obstacle to descend over the course of 3 seconds or so. Then they can proceed to capture.

It's a bit better than having to just stand there and wait (like with regular CP maps) and would give the defenders a bit more of a chance to stop them (such as by means of sticky bombs, as opposed to pretty much only having sentries as a surefire way to stop them).

I think this was even done in some TFC maps - ravelin (reverse CTF) comes to mind, where, aside from the secondary entrance, you had to wait for a massive gate to lower before you could get into the room with the capture point.