Tell me your issues with the CTF Push gametype
- Thread starter Icarus
- Start date
I think since it's different from the standard CP hud, typing "capture point" will alleviate confusion.
Also, in TF2 speak a CTF point is a "capture point"
Unfortunately, the built-in [forced] prints disagrees with you
Where is that text defined? Is it a hard-coded thing that Valve put in, or some kind of add on?
TracerDX
L3: Member
- Jun 9, 2009
- 127
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As to the insta-cap problem...
Couldn't one just enable/disable a trigger_capture_area on a CP due to the presence of the Intel? (triggle_multiple + filter_class_name?) From there you can use the CP mechanics to force some time period before the cap and even have an audible warning that the point is about to be capped.
Couldn't one just enable/disable a trigger_capture_area on a CP due to the presence of the Intel? (triggle_multiple + filter_class_name?) From there you can use the CP mechanics to force some time period before the cap and even have an audible warning that the point is about to be capped.
But then you might as well not have intel and just play CP.
TracerDX
L3: Member
- Jun 9, 2009
- 127
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I fail to see the correlation. If implemented with a cap time of 0, its the exact same thing everyone else is doing, with different entities. This just solves the insta-cap problem. Or at least, provides the option.
Add: And since we're on that subject, that's precisely what this whole CTF push concept is. Its CP, with the added constraint of having to haul a flag to the CP. Lets not kid ourselves into thinking its anything more than that, and maybe it will be easier to balance.
Add: And since we're on that subject, that's precisely what this whole CTF push concept is. Its CP, with the added constraint of having to haul a flag to the CP. Lets not kid ourselves into thinking its anything more than that, and maybe it will be easier to balance.
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It's fairly obvious that Valve took A/D ctf and turned it into the CP style we see in dustbowl right now. They probably thought, "oh, instant captures are annoying, lets put a time on the capture." Then they thought that one person being able to capture didn't promote teamwork, so they dropped the flag and let anyone capture.
It's useless to make A/D ctf maps if all we try to do is make them just like CP... because then all we're doing is creating inferior CP. So, for instance, instead of thinking of instant captures as a "problem," we should think of it as a feature to design around.
It's useless to make A/D ctf maps if all we try to do is make them just like CP... because then all we're doing is creating inferior CP. So, for instance, instead of thinking of instant captures as a "problem," we should think of it as a feature to design around.
Waif
L7: Fancy Member
- Mar 22, 2009
- 412
- 125
Thats good thinking. But what people need is a base map to work off, to learn from.
For example people can just look at gravel pit when making a 3 cap a/d map. dustbowl is a fantastic example of attak and defend cap point stages.
But there isnt really any concept to design invade CTf from, should the maps be narrow and chokepointy, very long and stretched out, full of open spaces or what?
I think a guide/ hint topic needs to be made
TracerDX
L3: Member
- Jun 9, 2009
- 127
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Excellent points. I must point out though, that it still takes a coordinated effort to move the Intel into position before capping, and its still not negated by CP mechanics. It really just gives players "the second chance" they are used to in other game modes. The typical "timing" of it all can be adjusted for balancing.
The modes are "very similar" and it'd behoove us to treat them as such.
The modes are "very similar" and it'd behoove us to treat them as such.
DrHaphazard
L5: Dapper Member
- Jan 6, 2008
- 249
- 12
Yeah, doubts about this playstyle have been niggling the back of my mind for a while now.
I think grazr nailed it in his post on the first page. The HUD is an issue certainly, but its just the instantaneous of the capping thats kinda irksome. The ONLY effective defense is to have people standing on the capture point, which means you are a sitting duck for kritzes/stickies/rockets lobbed into the point. Sure you can have sentries up but we all know that there are times when a scout or a rocket jumping soldier can get to the point before the sentry has time to react.
It also seems to obviate the use of the entire map. If things can be capped instantly then running out from the point just invites ninja caps. I had a vivid example of that the other day in playtesting (i believe on premuda) where a scout ran past 6-8 players on my team and onto the cap point despite the fact that we were within 50 feet of the point. Certainly the fault lay with my team, but it just underlines how stepping away from the point invites disaster.
Obviously the same complaint can be made about dustbowl, but we have all seen dustbowl last caps defended after the attacking team has made it onto the point, so its not quite the same.
I agree that it would be good to go back and look at some maps like this that have worked in the past. My favorite map from TFC, cz2 (canalzone 2) involved instant caps like this, but the difference was that points could be recaptured by the other team (was a domination style game where you had to accrue enough points by holding cps to win.)
Perhaps a chance to recap might not be a bad idea (although that might just create confusion.) Clearly if the attackers have dominated the point then this will be a no-go, but if it was just a lone scout or soldier ninja-capping then allowing the defenders to quickly retake might be a good idea.
I dunno, I am all for new playstyles, especially if valve is gonna help out on the HUD front, but i think that some careful designing of the maps is required to make this game fun.
My one quickfix solution might be to enlarge the area that the defenders can be standing on to lock the cap point. On a lot of maps currently it seems like you have to be standing within 2 feet of the point to avoid the cap. Perhaps if the area was enlarged so that the defenders could be within 10-20 feet.
My apologies of course if these things have already been remarked upon, i only had time to read the first two pages. I'll read the whole thread tonight.
I think grazr nailed it in his post on the first page. The HUD is an issue certainly, but its just the instantaneous of the capping thats kinda irksome. The ONLY effective defense is to have people standing on the capture point, which means you are a sitting duck for kritzes/stickies/rockets lobbed into the point. Sure you can have sentries up but we all know that there are times when a scout or a rocket jumping soldier can get to the point before the sentry has time to react.
It also seems to obviate the use of the entire map. If things can be capped instantly then running out from the point just invites ninja caps. I had a vivid example of that the other day in playtesting (i believe on premuda) where a scout ran past 6-8 players on my team and onto the cap point despite the fact that we were within 50 feet of the point. Certainly the fault lay with my team, but it just underlines how stepping away from the point invites disaster.
Obviously the same complaint can be made about dustbowl, but we have all seen dustbowl last caps defended after the attacking team has made it onto the point, so its not quite the same.
I agree that it would be good to go back and look at some maps like this that have worked in the past. My favorite map from TFC, cz2 (canalzone 2) involved instant caps like this, but the difference was that points could be recaptured by the other team (was a domination style game where you had to accrue enough points by holding cps to win.)
Perhaps a chance to recap might not be a bad idea (although that might just create confusion.) Clearly if the attackers have dominated the point then this will be a no-go, but if it was just a lone scout or soldier ninja-capping then allowing the defenders to quickly retake might be a good idea.
I dunno, I am all for new playstyles, especially if valve is gonna help out on the HUD front, but i think that some careful designing of the maps is required to make this game fun.
My one quickfix solution might be to enlarge the area that the defenders can be standing on to lock the cap point. On a lot of maps currently it seems like you have to be standing within 2 feet of the point to avoid the cap. Perhaps if the area was enlarged so that the defenders could be within 10-20 feet.
My apologies of course if these things have already been remarked upon, i only had time to read the first two pages. I'll read the whole thread tonight.