- Jul 31, 2011
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It would be neat if you could elaborate on the original "creating modular curves in UE3" technique.
- Thread starter kungfusquirrel
- Start date
Mr. Happy
L6: Sharp Member
- Jul 16, 2008
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I like the map and the area outside of spawn and the upper parts especially, and the center. I didn't play this with people but to me the distance between the two farthest points seems really far, that giant concrete backyard feels oversized next to the donut interior..since everything is at an angle the distances covered by paths are longer in smaller rooms. I wonder how a mirrored version with those two areas bridged would play.
Triangle trick still works for simple stuff. Is there any reason you use 7.5 from the origin in both directions as opposed to 15 in one direction? Brave of you to take blame for that, also thanks
Instances are great, if only TF2's version didn't have all the bugs and did have all the P2 functionality...
Triangle trick still works for simple stuff. Is there any reason you use 7.5 from the origin in both directions as opposed to 15 in one direction? Brave of you to take blame for that, also thanks
Instances are great, if only TF2's version didn't have all the bugs and did have all the P2 functionality...
nightwatch
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- Sep 7, 2012
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I tried it out a few times but I'm having trouble because the reference blocks I created don't have any other points on the grid except for the corner in the origin, and so I can't really carve properly. How was this magic achieved? I've been experimenting with different angles but I can't find a good one in which the rise/run or what have you fits neatly onto the grid for easy carving.
Don't carve
Every time you do, God kills a kitten.
Use the vertex tool ( :vertextool: )
nightwatch
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- Sep 7, 2012
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The problem with using the vertex tool is that there's no way to get a good duplicable angle when staying on the grid. If someone could enlighten me that would be great, but only carve has worked for me so far.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Then I am the harbinger of the kitten apocalypse.
Really, this is one of the few cases the carve tool is good at what it does. Because you're just trimming edges, you're not creating any concave faces that need to be split into new brushes or any other heresy that would normally get you killed. On rare occasion, I've run into some obscure errors on the carve, but that's because I've accidentally vertex-dragged an invalid solid while resizing something - and carving an invalid solid never ends well for anyone.
Ack, I forgot to mention how to create those! It's super simple, but relies on a couple annoying Hammer behaviors. The only way to rotate something around a particular point is for that point to be the midpoint of your selection, since you sadly can't manually specify a pivot a la Unreal or pretty much anything else ever. To do that, I built my clippers like this:
That allows me to rotate them around the Z axis. Then I duplicate and mirror the pair to get my full wedge:
And, for good measure, clip off the loose edge on the axis (this helps make sure I still have a grid snap point at 0,0:
Does that help?
Yeah, if you only slice one side, you'll get a misaligned edge. This is the cleanest way to do it (though you can pick whatever angle suits your fancy - I typically used smaller subdivisions in UE3, then combined them into larger curved chunks).
Hopefully the images above help answer part of that question. It's really the exact same process; I'd create an axial cross-section of the geometry I wanted to rotate, then offset the pivot to provide the rotation origin. UE3 has smaller rotation increments available, so I'd do 4 divisions at 5.125 to get a 4-segment curve across 22.5 degrees (for example), and then combine that geometry into a single additive brush and export to static mesh. You wouldn't want to build any final geometry that way, but it's great for blocking out modular assets or if you're doing a geocomp-styled level. Does that help at all? If not, I could go back and document that process a little bit better when I have some more time (but it might be a while).
Yeah, I'm looking into that. I haven't decided what I want to do yet. There's a ripple effect to it, and there's also some complications messing with that slope since I have to match it underneath the sniper ledge windows, too. I think if I actually drop the peak by 64 units, I can get a clean 3:8 slope and get everything to line up on the grid, but I'll make that decision later when I've ironed out the rest of the core layout.
As for the map's progress! I've been stupidly swamped the last couple weeks; I had hoped for a one-week turnaround on _a2, but it'll probably be early January now. I've made a bunch of adjustments that streamline and shorten the routes through the roundhouse itself, added another open big door in the tall section, added some midground cover and improved roof access, and even added an experimental tunnel from the area under the turntable back into the roundhouse.
Now I'm working on addressing some concerns at the spawn, and it'll take a little while to sort out yet. I've got some good ideas and about 3 separate ideas I want to preserve, and I keep figuring out solutions that preserve 1 or 2 of those. :\ But, that's how it goes!
I'm really excited for the new version, though; I think it'll be a fun one. I'll post when I have more to show! Let me know if you have any other questions about the level's construction or if there's anything you want to see or get a better explanation on.
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nightwatch
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- Sep 7, 2012
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That's pretty much exactly how I was doing it! Sweet!
the other thing that clipping the edges off does is prevent little bits left over when you carve, if there's a brush right up against the origin.
My real question was if it was possible to ensure that the slanted edge of your reference brush hits another grid intersection anywhere, because then you can clip instead of carving, making everyone happier and less paranoid about apocalyptic happenings brought on by carving.
the other thing that clipping the edges off does is prevent little bits left over when you carve, if there's a brush right up against the origin.
My real question was if it was possible to ensure that the slanted edge of your reference brush hits another grid intersection anywhere, because then you can clip instead of carving, making everyone happier and less paranoid about apocalyptic happenings brought on by carving.
- Mar 20, 2012
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Bookmarking this thread. Fantastic techniques to break out of the orthogonal composition that many Source mappers are chained to. Nice work.
- Dec 10, 2012
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There is possibly some far-out there grid intersection where it lines up on at least the 1 grid, but I'm too lazy to do the math and I'm not sure it'd improve the process by much trying to line the clipper up each time. Just remind yourself that carving like this really isn't any different from the clip tool, and not as terror-inducing as trying to cut holes in things.
Thanks! It's one of the greatest strengths of instances beyond the re-use of repeated objects. I'm taking it to an extreme, but you could do this with any building sans the wedge setup - just build and detail normally, then drop it as an instance and rotate to your heart's content. You'll get a few weird portal intersections on the outside corners and on the interior if you cross the 1024 cuts that vbsp inserts (I had to offset Roundhouse's center to 512,512 to help clean up those cuts a bit), but it shouldn't give you any noticeable trouble.
If any of you guys have Modern Warfare on the PC, their editor has a version of instances that, as I understand it, the Valve implementation was somewhat based on. I think it was the levels "Safehouse" and "Heat" levels (same level, just played in reverse and at different times of day with different pacing) that really tipped me off to the best way to start using them and made me wonder if this circular setup might be possible with them in Source.
