Move Those Maps Up!

henke37

aa
Sep 23, 2011
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515
From what little I've played on the maps, I can safely say that they are good. One thing that is exceptionally good is the navigation. Easy and near impossible to fail at. If there is anything that can kill a map then it would be difficult navigation.

And I have to concur. This site could use some Valve people casually dropping by once in a while.
 
Aug 23, 2008
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I agree with most things that Scorpio said, but i'd like to quibble on one point.



Surely at least part of this is that you are getting better? Beyond a certain level there's very little anyone else can do to help with your map.

Yes, of course thats true. But the point, IMO, is that certain people seem to imagine that the community here is the GOSPEL TRUTH, and that my maps are somehow inferior and should be discredited because of some "nitpicks" from community members. The point I was trying to raise is that any group that imagines this community as the absolute end all, pinnacle of TF2 mapping is deluding themselves, amazing mappers work outside of the community quite a bit more than they work within it.

As far as Valve being more vocal; it would be nice obviously, but I think we all know how busy/crazy/disorganized Valve is. They create amazing games and do so largely in secret with a twisted organic process, and I can imagine that their priorities internally are quite a bit different from ours. Spending time writing articles (because, ultimately, I don't feel like you could establish what they think about mapping in any other smaller format) on what kinds of map design's they love/hate probably detracts from other things they could be doing (playtesting upcoming games internally and providing feedback, discussing new weapon designs, etc etc).

Also, could you imagine if they did start posting directly onto certain forum posts about what maps they like/dislike? Seems like that could lead to a lot of infighting and copycat behavior. If you look at something like the SPUF, where pretty much anyone can wander in and proselytize, if a Valve employee shows up and starts talking it feels like the forum takes on a new level of insanity. I feel like Valve keeps its distance from such interactions because of the possibility of things turning to shit, of things falling apart and never really getting the right message out.

In the end, I do feel like the blog post may really be an indication of them opening up a bit more. I do also think they are steadily working on a community workshop for maps, which feels like the sort of project that really dictates what kinds of maps they are interested in acquiring. Go check out the CS:GO workshop for an example of how popular/successful such a project is, and how quickly the designers latched onto a collection of really awesome maps.
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
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Yes, of course thats true. But the point, IMO, is that certain people seem to imagine that the community here is the GOSPEL TRUTH, and that my maps are somehow inferior and should be discredited because of some "nitpicks" from community members. The point I was trying to raise is that any group that imagines this community as the absolute end all, pinnacle of TF2 mapping is deluding themselves, amazing mappers work outside of the community quite a bit more than they work within it.

I have to agree with this. I've said similiar things before in passing to folk (maybe made a post, but I forget). But here we go again.

TF2M is a learning resource. It's a place where people can come to learn and try new things in a healthy environment, be it trying to make a new gametype, or just making a gametype they haven't before. Things have really changed in the past few years. TF2M members see a new person, and just say to their map "It's bad, and square" ... well, why is that bad? The new guy won't know, we need to tell them. I see new and interesting maps get posted, from mappers well outside TF2M, and a lot of the time, they get deeeestroyed when they show up here, (Sorry R1ghteous, sorry for giving you a hard time!).

I chat with other mappers about testing their map here. I can't tell them with much honesty anymore that the feedback provided will be good, or even that there will be feedback. Yes, there are people who take the time to give good feedback, they discuss with the authors in threads, or on steam about their map and provide help and insight. But the general majority of feedback I see, really isn't that great and is horribly unhelpful.

TF2M was not, is not, and forever shall not be the community that defines what a good map is and what a bad map is. If that is truely what you think TF2M is, then you are a moron. TF2M is, and forever shall be a learning tool for the entirety of the TF2M community to use.
 

En Ex

L1: Still Registered
aa
Jun 30, 2010
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Congrats, Scorpio. I just checked my maps folder, and I have versions of Process and Standin from 2011 (I knew those names sounded familiar), so it's great to see them finally go official.
 

Crash

func_nerd
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Mar 1, 2010
3,315
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What I would love to see from valve is a short set of notes after they play test a custom map. From that alone we could deduce what they are looking for in a map. We'd be receiving feedback from them, and they would be getting more of what they want from us.

I would imagine there are quite a few maps out there that are borderline acceptable and only need small tweaks to make them up to valves standards. Knowing when that line is close benefits everyone involved.

If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take them to get to this point from the time they contacted you about purchasing the maps?
 
Aug 23, 2008
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What I would love to see from valve is a short set of notes after they play test a custom map. From that alone we could deduce what they are looking for in a map. We'd be receiving feedback from them, and they would be getting more of what they want from us.

I would imagine there are quite a few maps out there that are borderline acceptable and only need small tweaks to make them up to valves standards. Knowing when that line is close benefits everyone involved.

If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take them to get to this point from the time they contacted you about purchasing the maps?

First email was Jun 21st, I sent them the finalized version of the map on Jun 30th.
 

Turbo Lover

Fight me under Glasgow Central Station
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Feb 15, 2011
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Congratulations on getting not one, but two maps in, Scorpio, simultaneously even.

Even if some people dislike the maps being added in this update, I think we should remember that this is still a great thing, it shows that Valve are, in fact, still interested in maps and gives us a little bit of insight into their selection process. It may not be a stark declaration of what they want and how they want it done, but it's something, and it's something good.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
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Scorpio, any idea what your strange filters will be called?

(Also, welcome to the world of being paid because people buy virtual items online. It's a strange world here)
 
Aug 23, 2008
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Scorpio, any idea what your strange filters will be called?

(Also, welcome to the world of being paid because people buy virtual items online. It's a strange world here)

They haven't mentioned anything about it to me, so who knows.

Money showing up in my bank account for no reason??? WHAT IS THIS WITCHCRAFT?
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
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Just wait until you get a bumper month.

Then wait until you get a bumper-bumper month.
 

Fish 2.0

L6: Sharp Member
Nov 22, 2012
324
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I feel like saying that maps need to look similar or exactly the same as maps that already exist is stifling the wonderful amount of creativity that mappers have.

vlalve pls addsd

mario6.jpg



I didn't mean it that strictly.
 
Sep 7, 2012
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All of these are just a fraction of the many ways players can now turn maps like Badwater upside down.
If this isn't a deliberate reference to the 20-something badwater edits out there, I don't know what is.
 

henke37

aa
Sep 23, 2011
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I think I've played that map once. Didn't get enough time to judge it.
 
T

The Asylum

Monday, and no new blog posts. How sure are we that this update will be dropping this week?
 

Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
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Nov 14, 2009
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I'll support adding mariokart when it has actual vehicles that players can get in and drive.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
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Someone posted some of these in chat, and I feel that they're very relevant to the discussion of detail in the Scorpio's maps, Valve's and the output of this community.

http://www.nodraw.net/2010/08/tf2-density-of-detailing/
http://www.nodraw.net/2010/08/detail-of-tf2-pt1/
http://www.nodraw.net/2010/08/detail-of-tf2-pt-2/
http://www.nodraw.net/2010/09/detail-of-tf2-pt-3/
http://www.nodraw.net/2010/09/detail-of-tf2-pt-4/
http://www.nodraw.net/2010/09/detail-of-tf2-pt-5/

Reposting these has now made me feel guilty for letting Nodraw stagnate. Gee thanks guys.