Major Mapping Contest #4

[littleedge]

And that discussion actually goes on for more time.

 

[Geal]

And that discussion actually goes on for more time.

Did anyone come to a conclusion? It's obvious we can talk about this for hours and hours, but until someone (hopefully YM or someone else running the contest) lays down some official rules, talking about it won't really get us anywhere. Yeah we can throw ideas around (preliminary rounds, lowering pub vote value, etc) but really, we need to hear an official word on this.

 

[Fraz]

And that discussion actually goes on for more time.

Give me a time to go on to. After a while it turns into flame wanting to suck mangy's dick and why X person would suck as a judge, which I hardly feel is relevant...

 

[Fraz]

The rest of the convo until now...

21:22 - flame ♫: gonna get in mumble
21:22 - Ravidge | ctf_Fusion: I would judge, if it werent for that
21:22 - flame ♫: and be like SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS 0 0 0 0
21:23 - supersandvich: rofl
Nerdboy entered chat.
21:23 - Rikka: that whole "we're going to have 6v6 gamedays!" thing was always bad
21:23 - flame ♫: obv
21:23 - Rikka: people sat there, and three months are like "so when we getting those gamedays"
21:23 - Littleedge: I could always be a judge I gave very few maps (Only vector and Haarp, i think) any top scores last contest since I'm so strict, and even though i might suck at TF2, I can /see/ if they're any good
21:23 - flame ♫: me and ravidge tried
21:23 - flame ♫: and it fucking sucks
21:23 - flame ♫: cuz nobody plays right lol
21:24 - Rikka: meanwhile you had flame advertising is ability ot get a lobby set up all the time
21:24 - Mott: "plays right"
21:24 - flame ♫: all it takes is one bad medic or one bad pocket soldier or one bad demo to ruin a pug
21:24 - Littleedge: Nobody does teamwork, Matt.,
Immortal-D is now playing Left 4 Dead 2. Click here to join.
21:24 - The Political Gamer: little would make a great judge
21:24 - Mott: Maps fault
21:24 - Mott: duh
21:24 - Littleedge: :O
21:24 - Icarus: oh
21:24 - flame ♫: i meant the fact the testing failed.
21:24 - Littleedge jumps with joy that somebody approves
21:24 - Icarus: popular vote/judge vote is 50/50
21:24 - Rikka: or one person who joins and assumes that they're just in a pub and can run pyro the whole time
21:24 - flame ♫: NICE PEACE WIRETAP
21:24 - Nerdboy: Aw fuck damn it
21:25 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: what
21:25 - Littleedge: Political, go tell YM that
21:25 - flame ♫: im a bigger fan of the medics
21:25 - flame ♫: who heal nobody
21:25 - flame ♫: and dont turn around ever
21:25 - The Political Gamer: seletntic
21:25 - The Political Gamer: selentic*
21:25 - The Political Gamer: heh
21:25 - flame ♫: selentics garbage
21:25 - flame ♫: just has an ego
21:25 - Littleedge: Oh hey mappers, be happy
21:26 - The Political Gamer: lol
21:26 - Jake | TF2maps.net: :3
21:26 - Rikka: what i really liked was the guy who spent the whole match asking someone to switch classes with him every five minutes
om nom nick entered chat.
21:26 - Wilson "Sherlock" Wankhouse: BONK!
The heavy is a spy.
21:26 - Littleedge: I'm letting Valve know that I want a way to turn off cap crits to help those that need them
21:26 - Littleedge: Like Shmitz
21:26 - Littleedge: And Vile. and Psy. And all them cool cats
21:27 - Nerdboy: A map setting must be given
21:27 - The Political Gamer: sigh we do need to cut down the # of maps
21:27 - flame ♫: lol viles map is so fail
21:27 - Nerdboy: That can be overwritten by the console
21:27 - Mott: Let's just find all the ones flame likes
21:27 - flame ♫: he wouldnt listen to me when i told him his scaling blew
21:27 - Mott: and cut 'em
21:27 - Nerdboy: So Mercy is in
21:27 - Nerdboy: Wiretap is in
21:27 - The Political Gamer: wellcano
21:27 - The Political Gamer: HEH
21:27 - Mott: Bam look how much that was cut down!
21:27 - Icarus: we're probably gonna have a preliminary round
21:27 - Penguin "The Longtime Companda": oh matt
21:27 - Icarus: to cut downt he # of maps
21:28 - flame ♫: should be like 10-15
21:28 - The Political Gamer: I hope so icky
21:28 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: cut out all the early alphas
21:28 - Nerdboy: Quiz show
21:28 - flame ♫: than everyone can yell at me
21:28 - The Political Gamer: idk fi assembly gets the boot
21:28 - flame ♫: FLAME RUINED THE TEST
21:28 - flame ♫: =]
21:28 - The Political Gamer: if*
21:28 - Rikka: only if we push for it enough. there not going to want to doit
21:28 - Nerdboy: Banjo Kazooie style contest ender
21:28 - flame ♫: people are gonna love my writeups
21:28 - Nerdboy: Answer questions about the maps that were dropped early on
21:28 - Nerdboy: Like the original layout of Assembly
21:29 - flame ♫: and nines gonna let me make a nodraw article next weekish 8)
21:29 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: about what
om nom nick is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:29 - Icarus: let you?
21:29 - Icarus: flame
21:29 - supersandvich: how to make your map blow
21:29 - Icarus: you just sign up
21:29 - Icarus: and write an article
21:29 - Nerdboy: The 10 authors with the most answers correct wins
21:29 - flame ♫: lmao
21:29 - Icarus: I have access to nodraw
21:29 - Icarus: but I havent posted anything
21:29 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: me too
21:29 - flame ♫: well it has to be published
21:30 - flame ♫: mangys back in 3 months. WHO ELSE IS PUMPED
21:30 - The Political Gamer: lol
21:30 - Icarus: YUKON UPDATE
21:30 - Muffin Man: no not really
21:30 - Icarus: then he's gonna go at coldfront
21:30 - Nerdboy: THUNDERCATS
21:30 - Littleedge: I'm not pumped
21:30 - Nerdboy: HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
21:31 - Wilson "Sherlock" Wankhouse: Nerdboy
21:31 - Littleedge: Mangy always came off as an arrogant egocentric teenager
21:31 - The Political Gamer: FLOOR has already filed for divorce
21:31 - Littleedge: He acts like he's better than everyone else.
21:31 - Dark (I am Jacks Iron Fist): hes on the fourms sometimes, he might have already seen it
21:31 - Wilson "Sherlock" Wankhouse: I asked cleverbot what he thinks about your ficcus thing
21:31 - Penguin "The Longtime Companda": I agree little
21:31 - Wilson "Sherlock" Wankhouse: Cleverbot said you are gay nerdboy
Ikem entered chat.
21:31 - Muffin Man: really
21:31 - Penguin "The Longtime Companda": even though I dislike both atrophy and wildfire
21:31 - Muffin Man: I think Mangy is a nice guy
21:31 - Ikem: how do i make a door silent again
21:31 - Wilson "Sherlock" Wankhouse: and you should stop taking care of ficcus
21:31 - Littleedge: Sure, he kind of is to a majority of people. But he could keep it to himself, ya know
21:31 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: lol
21:31 - Nerdboy: Why did I close out of staredit
21:32 - Jake | TF2maps.net: WIRETAAAAAAAP
21:32 - Nerdboy: You spelled ficus wrong Wilson
21:32 - Ikem: anyone?
StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:32 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: hehe
21:32 - Ravidge | ctf_Fusion: I don't like reading the "there was no competitive testing!" argument. There was, Flame Shmitz and I really tried for weeks, but the reception was so lukewarm it was laughable... Then I tried to ride on the etf2l highlander wave of interest with ravipugs (kinda worked, but it was always the same people who turned up)
supersandvich is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:32 - Jake | TF2maps.net: who said the download didn't work? It works fine here
Dark (I am Jacks Iron Fist) is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:33 - Icarus: mangy is a cool guy
21:33 - Erich: WIRETAPPPPP
21:33 - flame ♫: if someone really wants their map to get good
21:33 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: I liked the Ravipugs
21:33 - flame ♫: get it mnm'd
21:33 - Icarus: he's just tired of all the crap that goes on
21:33 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: but this proves TF2M is NOT a comp community
21:33 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: wiretap?
21:33 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: mnm'd?
21:33 - Ikem: how.. do i make a door silent
Wilson "Sherlock" Wankhouse is now playing Garry's Mod. Click here to join.
21:33 - Anonex: you check the door slient flag
21:33 - Rikka: i liked them when i could make them
21:33 - Icarus: etf2l monday night madness
21:33 - The Midget `cBs: http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=936021
21:33 - Icarus: they play new maps every monday
21:33 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: ah
21:33 - The Midget `cBs: I lol'd
21:33 - Rikka: mangy can be kind of arrogant, but overall he's a good guy, i think
21:33 - flame ♫: not EVERY monday
21:34 - flame ♫: but
21:34 - The Midget `cBs: 26 weeks worth of mondays
21:34 - Nineaxis: third time today
21:34 - Icarus: 32 teams
21:34 - Nineaxis: hl2.exe sucks
21:34 - flame ♫: lmao mangy is arrogant
21:34 - Icarus: one cup
21:34 - flame ♫: dont say kinda
[DFC]Jakkarra entered chat.
21:34 - [DFC]Jakkarra: Gentilmans
21:34 - flame ♫: id go gay for mangy over the internet
21:34 - flame ♫: quote me
21:34 - Rikka: i didn't interact with him much
21:34 - [DFC]Jakkarra: ...
21:34 - [DFC]Jakkarra: wat
21:34 - Rikka: in arrogance and dickery, how would he rank wit houy?
21:34 - Rikka: you*
21:34 - flame ♫: probably about the same or more
21:34 - The Midget `cBs: Flame: see my TF2M sig
21:34 - Rikka: hmmm
21:35 - Muffin Man: "more"?
21:35 - flame ♫: cuz he can be like "i made yukon suck my dick"
21:35 - The Political Gamer: done flame
Ikem is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:35 - Muffin Man: you're capped, flame
21:35 - Jake | TF2maps.net: AHhh, LITTLE MAP CRASHED
21:35 - flame ♫: not at all
21:35 - flame ♫: i havent even done anything in the past like month or two
21:35 - flame ♫: except occassionally post in ickys thread
21:35 - Rikka: again, never talked with him outside of testing
21:35 - flame ♫: and show up to testing once a week
Jake | TF2maps.net is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:35 - Rikka: though i can see how he'd be like that
21:35 - Littleedge: Oh. little map.
21:36 - Littleedge: I thought you were blaming me for something, Jake.
21:36 - Anonex: I always get distracted by the exploit in yukon
21:36 - The Political Gamer: Welcome to our newest member, johntnovint
21:36 - flame ♫: its not rly useful
21:36 - The Political Gamer: derp
21:36 - The Midget `cBs: herpder
21:36 - flame ♫: gonna suck his dick for a falcon
21:36 - Anonex: oh hey he's obsessed with mario kart right
21:37 - The Political Gamer: you could just suck mangy's for his 2nd one
21:37 - Anonex: maybe if I plaster NOVINT FALCON NOVINT FALCON NOVINT FALCON over the textures in Always he'll love me
21:37 - The Political Gamer: lol
21:37 - flame ♫: wtf muffin man
21:37 - flame ♫: No. Everyone deserves an equal opportunity.
Ikem left chat.
21:37 - flame ♫: how is saying "This map is not the top 15" not an equal opportunity
21:37 - flame ♫: FEELINGS WILL BE HURT
21:38 - Muffin Man: yeah
21:38 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): FLAME? TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS?
21:38 - flame ♫: ur not a physicist
21:38 - The Political Gamer: I much as I don't want to agree with flame on this
21:38 - flame ♫: you want people to see
21:38 - The Midget `cBs: flame has a point
21:38 - flame ♫: "oh my maps 26th"
21:38 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): dude I won the top physics thing of my state
21:38 - The Political Gamer: I do agree with him that we need to cut the maps down
21:38 - flame ♫: not ranking 1-26
21:38 - flame ♫: thats retarded
21:38 - [DFC]Jakkarra: cut what maps down?
21:38 - flame ♫: might as well make a bracket
21:38 - Rikka: contest maps
21:38 - flame ♫: do head to head with the maps
21:39 - flame ♫: and double elim
21:39 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: no
21:39 - flame ♫: til one map comes out on top
21:39 - flame ♫: lmao
21:39 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: no
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): Ok
21:39 - flame ♫: shut up void its a joke.
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): here's what we do
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): We take all themaps
21:39 - The Political Gamer: er lets just have an elmination vote
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): we put them in a blender
21:39 - The Midget `cBs: OMFG
21:39 - flame ♫: but we need to drop 10 or more maps
21:39 - The Midget `cBs: GUISE
21:39 - [DFC]Jakkarra: Is the next contest going to be a PL contest?
21:39 - Rikka: knew you'd say blender
21:39 - Void | ctf_wiretap_b1: i honestly dont know when youre joking
21:39 - [DFC]Jakkarra: If so
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): and turn it on for 1 minute
21:39 - The Midget `cBs: BEST IDEA
21:39 - The Political Gamer: just pick your top ten
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): The one that has the largest piece remaining wins
21:39 - The Midget `cBs: PICK RANDOM MAPS FROM A HAT TO WIN
21:39 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): ^^
21:39 - [DFC]Jakkarra: What is this, i don't even
21:40 - flame ♫: have you ever thought just maybe
21:40 - flame ♫: you belong with meeeeeeee
21:40 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): In all seriousness I am the 3A UIL State Top Physics person
21:40 - Littleedge: Flame.
21:40 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): I have a medal to prove it
21:40 - Littleedge: You read my novel of a rant on competitively playing these ctf maps?
21:40 - Dat Owlruler: pics
21:40 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): And I guess a novel.
21:40 - Dat Owlruler: or you ain't TMP
Redo entered chat.
Okrag entered chat.
21:40 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): want to see?
21:40 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): ok
21:41 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): 2 things
21:41 - flame ♫: if you think theres not an even split in the maps
21:41 - flame ♫: theres maps in the thread i havent even heard of
FireSlash entered chat.
21:41 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): Ok take this link
21:41 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): http://utdirect.utexas.edu/uil/vlcp...=S&s_level_nbr=&s_conference=3A&s_submit_sw=X
21:41 - flame ♫: meaning they just popped out of the woodwork recently
21:41 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): Scroll to the Science portion
21:42 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): And then go, then scroll down to the bottom where it says "Top Scorers"
21:42 - Littleedge: Flaaammeee
21:42 - Littleedge: Read my long post in the threadddddd
21:42 - flame ♫: WHAT
21:42 - Littleedge: And Thank it.
21:42 - flame ♫: where
21:42 - Littleedge: And agree with meeeeee
21:42 - Littleedge: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=159727&postcount=317
21:42 - Littleedge: I thinkt hats it
21:42 - Dat Owlruler: TMP, you came 9th
21:42 - Dat Owlruler: YOU GOT NO MEDAL
21:42 - Littleedge: Yep that's it
21:42 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): TOP SCORERS
21:43 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): NOT INDIVIDUAL RESULTS
21:43 - Rikka: midget, you took out the part where i mentioned i was going to take a shower
21:43 - Rikka: wtf man, that was intergal to the conversation
21:43 - The Midget `cBs:
21:43 - The Midget `cBs: how?
21:43 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): I bombed the chem
Moosε disconnected.
21:43 - flame ♫: like honestly
21:43 - Rikka: it was very obviously the keystone mark of the conversation
21:43 - flame ♫: who else is judging
21:43 - flame ♫: this contest
21:44 - The Midget `cBs: me and Barry
21:44 - The Political Gamer: nine?
21:44 - The Political Gamer: ABS?
21:44 - Littleedge: Nobody actually knows anything Flame
21:44 - The Political Gamer: :S
21:44 - Littleedge: Judges are unannounced
21:44 - Littleedge: Way of voting is unnanounced
21:44 - Littleedge: Categories are unnanounced
21:44 - flame ♫: cuz rly
21:44 - Littleedge: It's terrible.
21:44 - flame ♫: youme a judge
21:44 - The Political Gamer: Littleedge (I hope)
21:44 - Littleedge: The admins need to give us SOME heads up
21:44 - flame ♫: think hes played the game 3x in the past 5 months
21:44 - 42| Randdalf: http://tf2chan.net/dis/res/21907.html
21:44 - Rikka: youme is a bad lobby medic
21:45 - flame ♫: thats cuz he thinks his community kritzkrieg is amazing
21:45 - [DFC]Jakkarra: THEY HAVE DEVELOPED THE .500 MAGNUM
21:45 - flame ♫: and never switches to uber
21:45 - [DFC]Jakkarra: Holy balls
21:45 - Icarus: little: read the thread
21:45 - Icarus: way of voting and categories are already planned
Moosε is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
Moosε entered chat.
21:47 - flame ♫: he opens the door
21:47 - flame ♫: she rolls over, goes to sleep as he looks her over
21:47 - Rikka: i'm tempted to not thankyou for the stema convo thread midget
21:47 - Icarus: midget didnt even post it all
21:47 - flame ♫: wheres drp
21:47 - Rikka: as i mentioned, left out my shower comment
21:47 - flame ♫: i want my $$ thing
21:47 - flame ♫: to say
Immortal-D is now playing Left 4 Dead 2. Click here to join.
21:48 - Rikka: ruined the whole chat log, really
21:48 - flame ♫: TF2Maps.net PLAYTEST RUINER
21:48 - flame ♫: she lies and says shes in love with him
21:48 - Littleedge: Oh hey look at that thanks Icarus
21:48 - flame ♫: cant find a betterman
21:48 - Littleedge: I think i knew that now that I say that
Moosε disconnected.
21:48 - Littleedge: Whoops./
21:48 - Icarus: you can use your custom title though
21:49 - The Midget `cBs: Icarus I what did I miss?
21:49 - flame ♫: yeah its like Level 1 Sentry or something stupid
21:49 - flame ♫: bbl gym
21:49 - The Midget `cBs: I got as much as I saw relevant
om nom nick is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:49 - The Midget `cBs: at the time
21:49 - om nom nick: Inpromptu time, pl_valley_a8 being tested
Dat Owlruler is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:49 - om nom nick: come join
21:49 - Muffin Man: finally flame leaves
21:49 - Jake | TF2maps.net: Which server?
21:49 - om nom nick: EU
21:49 - Muffin Man: maybe we'll have an opportunity for normal conversations now
21:50 - Nerdboy: Map complete
21:50 - Nerdboy: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3532367/showoff/Terrain 012.jpg
21:50 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: lol
21:50 - Nerdboy: All those streetlights are destructible
21:50 - Nerdboy: They make big explosions
21:50 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): Hey Nerd
21:50 - Muffin Man: is that a SC2 map?
21:50 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): did you know there is a map exactly like that
21:50 - Nerdboy: Yes
21:50 - Muffin Man:
21:50 - Nerdboy: To both
21:50 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): except you put the main base where the expo was
21:50 - Nerdboy: It's called Bridge Over the River Styx
21:51 - Nerdboy: And that is the initial start location
21:51 - Muffin Man: I dunno anything about SC2 but it looks sweet
21:51 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): It doesn't to me
21:51 - Nerdboy: Trust me, I have the SC1 version open right next to it
21:51 - Anonex: I never really got the point of the destructable statues and the like
21:51 - Anonex: is it purely cosmetic?
21:51 - TMP (Physicist of TF2maps): Why are your minerals messed up
21:51 - Dat Owlruler: hey guyz, pl_valley_a8 is being tested
21:52 - The Midget `cBs: EU/US
21:52 - A Boojum Snark: what's with all the giant signatures lately
21:52 - Dat Owlruler: EU
21:52 - Nerdboy: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3532367/showoff/origin.png
21:52 - Nerdboy: Why are my minerals messed up?
21:52 - Dat Owlruler: I'm just having to download mudslide
21:52 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: wut
21:52 - StickZer0 | CTF_Mexico: oh right
21:53 - Nerdboy: What's wrong with my minerals?
Muffin Man is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
om nom nick is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
21:53 - Anonex: maybe they meant how the top right and bottom left aren't quite mirrored
21:53 - Dat Owlruler: and now assembly >:C
21:54 - Nerdboy: Because it'd look rather silly if they stuck out of the road

 

[Tinker]

Best would be to contact some people who haven't seen the maps ever, at all, and invite them to play a few scrims on them. That way, it isn't just defined to one clique.

 

[YM]

If anyone would like to summarise that stupidly long chat history for me I'd be glad to make a comment.

We'll be assembling the judges over the next few days to coincide with the ending of the grace period. there will be judges with competitive knowledge (read: 6v6) and judges with mapping knowledge, each will judge their own subject area.
A preliminary round will also be devised over the next few days. Keep playing the maps in any pugs you can organise in the chat. If you're reading this and want in on the testing, get into the steam chat otherwise you're gunna miss out.

 

[grazr]

Basically they want to scrap the public vote and only allow comp players to judge the maps.

 

[Vilepickle]

all i got from the wall-o-text was some guy saying my map blows because i didn't listen to his opinion and a lot of indecision

 

[Leminnes]

all i got from the wall-o-text was some guy saying my map blows because i didn't listen to his opinion and a lot of indecision

Bring it to PMs. Lets not get this started. :O

 

[lana]

I have a feeling this is a preliminary.

EDIT:

That second chatlog isn't all that relevant, is it?

 

[Citizen Snips]

Is there going to be mass map testing, or what?

 

[The Political Gamer]

all i got from the wall-o-text was some guy saying my map blows because i didn't listen to his opinion and a lot of indecision

Thats flame for you. :V

 

[sniprpenguin]

As one of the contestants, I would like to know what is going on here.

From what I am gathering, it sounds like there will be a preliminary round. In addition, only the big name maps will be played by a majority of the players, like in the last contest. Now, I personally have no idea how to even get into PUGs, nor how to see if PUGs are being held on my entry. However, what I'm reading in between the lines is that the public vote will be the preliminary round, and the judges will rate the finalists.

Being not-a-big-name nor a well-known entry, I refuse this idea based on the fact that I cannot control the masses and make them play my map. Looking at previous contests, the well-known maps get more votes from the public than the others, but the judges' votes still help the underdogs out in the end. Having a preliminary without judges' influence would be unfair to the maps that probably aren't being played just because they're not Schmitz or DBP. In fact, I think a preliminary round is bad, even with the judges weighing in.

Yes, we have 26 entries. Yes, that's going to take some time to accurately judge. But anyone who applied for judging knew they were going to have to spend some time actually working towards decisions on the maps. And, as far as I can tell, we also don't have a deadline for the end of the contest (the ACTUAL end, as in prizes handed out) set in stone. The only deadline we had for anything was the initial entry, and now a blurry date for resubmitting.

Essentially, I'm saying every map that was entered deserves a chance and a final rating, even if it'll mean ending up in 26th. Worse in my opinion would be the 16th map, cut out of the contest because there could only be 15. That author would be left wondering if he was the 26th, and never really know.

/rant on preliminaries

tl;dr All maps deserve a chance and the judges knew what they were getting into.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

tl;dr All maps deserve a chance and the judges knew what they were getting into.

Disclaimer: As I am no longer staff don't take my words as absolute truth, just what I see.

The funny thing here is, what you are saying might be self-contradictory. In the previous contest we had 16 entries, and it was a big strain on the judges and everyone else to properly analyze and rate them. There was a general consensus that that was too many and in the future there should be prelims for higher numbers of entries, but it was too late to do it for that one (and it was almost too few to actually have a prelim).

When I was on staff and we were planning this contest out, we basically agreed that we would need to have a prelim to cut it down to a manageable amount (going on the assumption that ctf is easier than plr/adctf, so we would have more than last time).

So my assumption is that anyone who applied or was asked to be a judge would have been informed that there would be a preliminary to cut down the number of entries, because clearly, how much work there is to do would effect one's desire to judge.

So my point is, "judges knew what they were getting into" might actually be conflicting with "all maps deserve a chance".

Disclaimer repeat: Remember this is just my thoughts. I don't really now how things will be done.

 

[sniprpenguin]

Disclaimer: As I am no longer staff don't take my words as absolute truth, just what I see.

The funny thing here is, what you are saying might be self-contradictory. In the previous contest we had 16 entries, and it was a big strain on the judges and everyone else to properly analyze and rate them. There was a general consensus that that was too many and in the future there should be prelims for higher numbers of entries, but it was too late to do it for that one (and it was almost too few to actually have a prelim).

When I was on staff and we were planning this contest out, we basically agreed that we would need to have a prelim to cut it down to a manageable amount (going on the assumption that ctf is easier than plr/adctf, so we would have more than last time).

So my assumption is that anyone who applied or was asked to be a judge would have been informed that there would be a preliminary to cut down the number of entries, because clearly, how much work there is to do would effect one's desire to judge.

So my point is, "judges knew what they were getting into" might actually be conflicting with "all maps deserve a chance".

Disclaimer repeat: Remember this is just my thoughts. I don't really now how things will be done.

Now, you see, I was unaware of this, not having anything to do with the last contest. In retrospect, perhaps even just a "If we have a high number of entries, we'll have a preliminary round" in the original rules would have sufficed.

Indeed, I do believe that I was ranting too soon. All I want is fair representation of maps in all stages, and I guess I was reading that the public vote was to be the preliminary, which it might/might not be.

We need details on how this would work.



BIG, ALTERNATE SUBJECT EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLEPOSTING: How does one get a PUG going? Just join the TF2Mappers chat and say "yo, can we pug <mapname>?" or what? A search was turning up anything.

 

[Flame]

@vile the discussion was that theres too many contest entries without enough spunk to win the whole thing or compete against the better half of them as well as the fact competitive testing is close to nonexistent without me ravidge or shmitz who all have other personal obligations right now (school, jobs, family etc)

the fact I think your map is too tiny is just a personal opinion which i did not hide from you at any point so i wouldnt get too worked up about me saying mercy is a 4v4 sized map

@everyone else
youme already said a preliminary round would occur, how it would work is unknown to me as far as whether players vote or judges or whatever but since the only truly involved staff member right now is nine, im not sure who you bros should ask.

i will give a writeup for every map, all 26 if i have to but like there are definitely "lesser known" authors with much better ctf maps than some of the "big names"... i doubt anyone will base it off a name vs the map itself.

tldr; we need a prelim, the lesser names have shown up for this contest and done well, and i dont hate viles map, its just too small for my taste

love, flame

 

[grazr]

I think one of the issues people are having is that aesthetics and gameplay do not go hand in hand, and at the risk of sparking the age old aesthetics vs gameplay debate, gameplay is more significant than aesthetics, and whether or not any one can reach a reasonable conclusion about that debate it is certainly true for comp players who tend to run FPS configs to improve their ingame performance. Prelim should be based off of gameplay because that is what alpha testing is for and i hope everyone has thrown out atleast one of those to understand how their layout performs. I mean the contest was comp CTF so this aspect should be the most important (but not unanimously). The level designers here do have a keener eye for details than the average player, comp or not. Which is why it's still important to have TF2 members public vote since aesthetics is still half the project. Whether it comes second in the process or not.

People are just anxious about the voting process because no one has any idea what is going on and nobody wants to be short changed in this contest. As much as some maps are beautiful, and some are obviously further through development than others, not everyone has been able to get their maps through proper art passes (or atleast several art passes), as is only natural in these contests with people entering from different walks of life and differing levels of free time; and those in essentially a handicapped position should not be penalised as much as some people would like to claim is necassery, stating: "If you don't have the time, don't bother entering because you'll be wasting everyone elses". A gameplay based judging session would surely even the odds more for maps with other qualities (which for comp CTF i feel gameplay is one). I do feel bad that essentially i am suggesting that the "beautiful" maps arn't rewarded as much as they normally would be although the scoring criteria should control this within reason, the maps first and foremost need to be playable by comp teams. If they cannot be accepted by comp players then they have failed the basic concept of this contest and are eliminated. It would still be nice to get scores for those maps though as it's valueble feedback and if a beautiful map gets eliminated it would kinda suck to have dedicated that much more time and effort only to get dropped out with seemingly nothing (But this should really have been resolved in alpha testing).

Certainly this way it also judges an authors capacity to make alpha's and take layout feedback on board which is one of the most important parts of level design, failing this and the rest of the map is essentially irrelavent.

 

[Geal]

Personally, I don't think it should be based solely on gameplay OR detail. Level design isn't one or the other, it's both. Singling out one aspect and focusing solely on that defeats the purpose of good level design. If you single out gameplay, all those who spent dozens and dozens of hours detailing will cry out when their maps get cut. If you focus on details, then those who had very fun maps will cry out if they had poor detailing. A map isn't one or the other, it's the combination of the two. I don't know how the prelims should be handled, but singling out gameplay or detailing isn't the right way to go about it.

 

[Fraz]

I have a feeling this is a preliminary.

EDIT:

That second chatlog isn't all that relevant, is it?

No, but Icarus and Littleedge were making a fuss about me not posting any further...

 

[grazr]

Personally, I don't think it should be based solely on gameplay OR detail. Level design isn't one or the other, it's both. Singling out one aspect and focusing solely on that defeats the purpose of good level design. If you single out gameplay, all those who spent dozens and dozens of hours detailing will cry out when their maps get cut. If you focus on details, then those who had very fun maps will cry out if they had poor detailing. A map isn't one or the other, it's the combination of the two. I don't know how the prelims should be handled, but singling out gameplay or detailing isn't the right way to go about it.

I didn't say concentrate on one of them. Obviously both would be taken into account. But if "those who spent dozens and dozens of hours detailing" get cut they cearly didn't meet the competition brief and deserve to be cut out. Effort alone doesn't win you these contests.

First the map needs to meet the brief set out by the contest rules. If it does, then it can be judged on the right merits.

I put dozens and dozens of hours into my map, but if comp players don't like it i failed the brief and should make way for other maps that met the brief, whether they are more detailed or not. If they're not, then they just wont score that well for aesthetics. I might have gotten a better score for that criteria but that's just the nature of prelims and precisely why i didn't want them in the first place. But since we're having prelims we need a fair way to cull maps, and determining whether they met the brief or not seems to be the right way to go about it. Atleast IMO.

Personally i wouldn't have a problem judging for 26 maps, but then i have summer holidays in 1 week. Not all the judges are keen on 26 maps and want prelims, so there needs to be a way of defining how and why maps go through. But this is just my perspective as a (Graphic) Designer. Speaking as a designer, this being Level Design, if you have failed to meet the design specifications for a project it would get rejected by your prospective employer, regardless of how nice it looked. That's just my logic.

If i had to design a poster for a poster competition to raise awareness for breast cancer but instead did on on testicular cancer i wouldn't be accepted into the judging process despite the fact it's a poster entered into a poster competition. I don't see how this is any different besides the fact it's more of a casual community based contest.