A payload map
Yeah. I'm with Bak on this one. A13 is a huge improvement!
Hey, so, from the test that we had where there some some discussion in regards to the map. (Shocking that TF2Maps.net actually talked about feedback on a map properly!) Here's the notes of what remember.
A couple people were complaining it was too big, or too wide. One cited the extra long ridiculous sightlines through some buildings made it that way, another just said it was big overall. Not overscaled, just big. The common run though was the finale before it opened up. Some of the gameplay spilled onto the doors before they opened, so that might be why people felt it was open.
The first few points were more difficult to push that the final few. The sentry spots were kind of strong.
We didn't have a bunch of people, maybe 7v7 at best, so take that into consideration too.
Wish I had some more specific stuff, but I thought the demo was running. I'll make sure to do this again so you get more people and more feedback.
MORE! On a 10v10+ server!
Some people are reporting that their map is fullbright on load. It appears to be just this map. There wasn't any correlation that I could find between the two things.
Buildings didn't destroy on finale opening, but I think you knew that.
Aesthetics so far were reported to be nice.
This is where it gets weird, the transition between 2 and 3 is either really hard to push, or really hard to defend, there wasn't much inbetween.
When it was hard to push, a teleporter was crucial for a successful push, you may want to look into adding a new forward spawn around cp 1 to help remedy this.
Conversely, when it's easy to push, red doesn't seem to have a chance to get a hold on the framed structure. This might be not having enough ammo, though there is a full ammo pack, or just not enough good spots to build a sentry nest on the fly. Consider maybe some cover around that structure area (like I suggested the other day).
Overall, this test felt really nice, the progression felt good and most people were having fun. Some people weren't, but hey.
Sentries around cp2 feel balanced, but their hard to attack. You have to go in blind from weird angles. Maybe consider increasing safe visibility into cp2 to alleviate this awkwardness.
Otherwise, goodwork on this version, the map is really coming along and I'm confident you could have a pretty solid map here in a versions. Keep it up.
Consider removing the door of the first blue spawn room.
About the sentries at the second point: we had 2 engineers constantly fixing each other's stuff and upgrading things really quickly, so that might be why it seemed a bit overpowered to some. If you improved visibility into the area (via windows) then some of the good engineer spots on the map would be gone. Something I see far too often is "engineers are getting kills, we gotta remove that spot entirely or increase visibility into the area". When one of us had died, it was very easy for BLU to push into the area and destroy our stuff.
Something that every map needs is a dead-end area where it is easy to set up a building and not have to worry about watching any more than one flank (something I disliked about cp_snowplow at first but that seemed to sort itself out). When it was only 1 engineer, after only a few kills the sentries were destroyed. Also, I think the class balance is nice in that area, as the building across from the 'sentry ledge' is far enough away that soldiers and snipers can take them out, and the windows overlooking the main well-styled-door can easily be spammed up into by a demoman using grenades or stickies.
So basically what I'm saying is that although a lot of people were complaining about it, I don't think it should be changed. This is what TF2 is all about, the fact that certain classes overpower others and yet there are still some who can counter said classes easily. Removing this would only unbalance the map and probably lead to a steamroll through the second point area (which is bad since 3rd point is right around the corner and there is usually still about 6 minutes on the clock).
So yeah, keep the engy spots. If there is a problem with it and more people complain, I suggest moving ammo around so that engineers need to move out into the open and are vulnerable several times.
I marked some areas I really liked with !fb, it's mostly B and right before C; right after B felt a bit flat and not all that great to push a kart through, but it's okay to keep that imo, after all it is granary theme.
This is kind of a dead area now, with no use besides being open and having no place go except to the HP/Ammo. Reminds me of the area behind the big building on Badwater 2, except that had a use as a flank. Not sure if this is good or bad yet, but wanted to point it out.
This room could use a little bit of a micro gameplay pass. Something that if there is a fight on the main floor, it's not a 1v1 open gladiatorial deathmatch to the death... Some cover or some sort would be useful and would go a long way.
I like dead areas. They're nice. Not every square of the map has to be a highway, sometimes areas you can go off in to hide or wander around are nice.
In case you're ever looking for a name later in development that doesn't sound dumb fits more with the general theme of the map, I'd recommend the name Cropcircle.
Inari is the shinto god of agriculture, I think it fits in with the theme fine, thank you.
I was kind of tired when I posted that.
I meant more that with the name Inari I'm not instantly thinking this is gonna be a farm map. But after a little bit of thought pretty much none of the official payload map names do that either, Upward and BarnBlitz especially.
Also, I like the part right before the finale a lot.
All of Aly's maps are japanese from now on. Forever. Until the end of time.
It's far easier to come up with a name someone hasn't taken that way. Plus, everyone remembers them
This forward spawn exit should face the direction we are supposed to go. We had a lot of people run the wrong way because of the current angle. Especially with that small wall on the left, it's like guiding players straight as they run out. The blu sign is way too low and out of the way to help.
Rest of the map played pretty well in our test tonight, though! Artpass, go!
Quick feedback of some issues:
Something is wrong with your HDR/cubemaps:
You have some z-fighting that is super distracting. (you can see it flickering when passing through the first turn after leaving BLU spawn)
-z-fighting on various other windows
-certain props in BLU's first spawn are too dark
-some other textures were super bright and blinding
Ugh, spent all morning wrangling with those cubemaps because it's consistently crashing on building them. It worked fine on my end, guess it didn't translate through. EDIT: Everything still looks fine on my end, the exact same version. Frozen reports his version is fine too. Are you sure it's not just you? The zfighting and such isn't noticable when the cubemaps aren't breaking all over the place either. As for bright textures, I see none. Please screenshot them.
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