Megapieman asked me to take a look at the new version and share my thoughts! I've cut out my rant about the design flaws with Cursed Cove since they aren't really relevant here, though there's still some general PD theory in here too.
With a8 (the very little I played of it) it felt like there was nowhere to really set up and hold from. This is a general issue with PD, since so much of the map needs to be neutral space and you don't want one team to be able to hold the cap zone really hard. Every PD map deals with this differently:
- Watergate has the zone be a tractor beam that moves, so you can only reasonably camp either the top or bottom
- Pit of Death has the zone inside the pit, meaning your best players need to dive into the underworld to score, weakening your defenses around the pit and allowing the enemies to break though
- Monster Bash has the zone be locked away in the bubble you have to fight around, then both teams have to assault the point at once
- Waterlog (my map, not official) has the points flip back and forth, so if a team is locking down one, it's hard to lock down the other
- Cursed cove tries to solve this with the underworld, but the underworld doesn't damage you so you can just set up inside the underworld which doesn't solve the issue
To me, it seems like you realized this camping-the-zone issue would be an issue, but over-corrected by doing both Pit of Death and Monster Bash's solutions at once, while also avoiding making any place any team can set up ever (at least in a8a). In a8a this seemed to be causing unfocused fights since there was nowhere for a team to group up and wait for the pit to open. It was a free-for-all in what (in my mind) should be a team-based mode. Monster Bash gets away with not having a clear place to hold since the capture zone becomes that when it's open; your big crushy gray thing is set up to serve a similar role, but the underworld undermines this since you are taken away and don't need to hold that physical spot. As long as you use an underworld, I'd recommend leaning more into the Pit of Death model and allowing for places for teams to set up a defense around the pit to stop enemies from entering. You've leaned more into this with a9, but you might want to push it even farther if it's still feeling unfocused.
I really like the new platform around the combine harvester; it seems like a great neutral place for teams to set up and watch most of the area, but still far enough that they can't quite lock down the whole pit when it's open. I expect some interesting fights for that high ground. I'm going to bet that people are going to complain about not being able to find ammo up there, but it's probably a good thing; I had a bunch of issues with Engineers on the high ground of Waterlog, so less is better for now. I am worried it might be a bit too chaotic to actually try and hold since there's still so many different potential directions to defend the high ground from, but I'd have to see it with players to know for sure.
If I turn off my brain, channel my inner Pyro, and just walk forward from spawn without thinking, the geometry naturally pulls me to the other side, closest to the pit, specifically where the machines are on either side above the big gray smashy thing. Here's how my brain works in that moment:
- I have the most information exiting this spawn near the windows since I can see that it's safe. It's also farther forward than the one next to me, so I'm safer for longer
- Hehe, there's a pumpkin there/the first route I see is the stairs there
- These stairs go into a building, which is safer than the outdoors that only has a fence as a map boundary, so I can't really tell how far it goes. Inside is a known quantity; outside is scary
- I can go down a long hallway to leave at a height disadvantage, or turn and leave the building now
- Oh look, a doorway that seems inviting
This seems like a shame to me, since this part of the map that I've just ended up in seems to be the weaker half of mid. It doesn't look like it will flow terribly well. Taking into account that these narrow angled walkways could be the collision point between the teams on a full server at the start of the round, it seems like you might want to direct people elsewhere or do something else with the geometry there. I think it would be more interesting if you pushed people towards the other half of mid, though I might be wrong; I'd have to see it being played. If you don't go for the pumpkin though, the middle route dumps you out in the middle of mid.
The one-way windows on the spawn doors seem backwards to me, letting players on the outside see in? I usually use them the other way around to prevent spawn camping. Upon further inspection, it seems to just be an issue with Blu's side, though the doors are misaligned with the door frames on Red's side now.
I'm not sure you need the rising water with the already quite rapid damage over time in the underworld. It's also is going to suck to do a super cool move and just barely sneak in before the portal closes, only to be killed by the water before you can deposit the points. If you do keep it, maybe try angling the ground slightly so that the water plane doesn't clip though it all at once?
There's a lot of "team_train_watcher failed to find path_track named ''" errors in the console. This seems to be from the team_train_watcher you're using to make the hand glow. I recommend switching to using a tf_glow entity instead so that error doesn't happen. You'll lose the spectator cam on the gray thing, but that spectator cam clips into the gray thing any time the gray thing goes back down anyways so you should probably replace it with a different cam that focuses on the point.
Finally, I'm worried about how empty the center of mid looks to be. I'm terrible at judging scale though, so it might be fine once fighting starts.
Overall this seems a lot more interesting than the past versions have to me, and I'm interested to see where it goes and how it plays!
