Contest idea thread!

[Spike]

Not really. At least not for us "normal people" who already have the models they need. You can go ahead and make as many models as you want if you'd like to make something out of the ordinary, of course, but however you look at it, you don't NEED to make custom models for Source maps. Unless you're Valve.

On HL1 you didn't need models to make something different from HL1 because all was brush based.

But to make new things on Source you need models, if not you're just using Valve made things and repeating over and over.

 

[Pink_Panther]

But to make new things on Source you need models, if not you're just using Valve made things and repeating over and over.

I would say that models are fogging your vision of mapping creativity. I cant think of one of my 50+ hl1/2 maps that anyone would accuse of being a Valve repeat. Im guessing Mr.MuffinMan would agree to this even though he really dislikes my mapping style.

Models are great and all, but they lead to mapping laziness. Anyone can make a square room and then fill it with interesting models/props. But it takes skill to make a room interesting without a model/prop.

Maybe that should be the contest. Make a map, without props/models except only a selected list required to make a working ctf/pl/arena... type map. In reference to some other threads, this would even out the contest between the aging mappers and the up and commers. It would be a test of creativity instead of how many props you can cram in to make it look great.

 

[Spike]

I would say that models are fogging your vision of mapping creativity. I cant think of one of my 50+ hl1/2 maps that anyone would accuse of being a Valve repeat. Im guessing Mr.MuffinMan would agree to this even though he really dislikes my mapping style.

Models are great and all, but they lead to mapping laziness. Anyone can make a square room and then fill it with interesting models/props. But it takes skill to make a room interesting without a model/prop.

Maybe that should be the contest. Make a map, without props/models except only a selected list required to make a working ctf/pl/arena... type map. In reference to some other threads, this would even out the contest between the aging mappers and the up and commers. It would be a test of creativity instead of how many props you can cram in to make it look great.

Excussssssseeeee me but mapping = making things on 3D and then playing on it. It includes models and brushes. Just to make you know, lots of Unreal Tournament maps are made 100% by models (actually almost all of the maps are made 100% by models (except terrain)), and it's called mapping too.

Also most of the games make the levels in a 3D editor like Maya,3dmax or XSI. It's just Valve likes to make things weird.

Mapping laziness? What does a room need to have? A square and some beams, all the rest are models. Oh btw, modelling is more difficult than mapping, I would not call it lazy.

Modelling = mapping, it's just Source has not a model editor built inside Hammer.

 

[Nineaxis]

Modelling does not equal mapping in my opinion. Modelling takes skill, effort, and training in an entirely different environment. There are plenty of modelling communities with modelling contests. We are a mapping community, a TF2 mapping community. What exists out of the TF2 Source Engine SDK is irrelevant. We're here to make stuff in Hammer, whether or not UT maps are more heavily model-based.

 

[Spike]

Modelling does not equal mapping in my opinion. Modelling takes skill, effort, and training in an entirely different environment. There are plenty of modelling communities with modelling contests. We are a mapping community, a TF2 mapping community. What exists out of the TF2 Source Engine SDK is irrelevant. We're here to make stuff in Hammer, whether or not UT maps are more heavily model-based.

Yes you're right on the modelling is not the same as mapping , it's just I thinkmodelling is part of mapping.

Anyway I think a modelling contest would be useful for those who wants to start modelling, I would make tutorials if this contest comes out, and everybody interested would learn how easy is to make props for Source and add them in their maps.

Also I think a modelling contest would not be a "big contest", more like a mini-contest.

 

[Pink_Panther]

Anyway I think a modelling contest would be useful for those who wants to start modelling, I would make tutorials if this contest comes out, and everybody interested would learn how easy is to make props for Source and add them in their maps.

Also I think a modelling contest would not be a "big contest", more like a mini-contest.

Putting together a tutorial is a great idea im sure many people would use it. I may as I have been 3d modeling for far too many years as well.

the problem with a 'contest' is that those that are new will be too intimidated by the practiced and probably not enter. Those that do model are few from what I can tell. So, I suppose what im getting at is whats your goal? if its to get more people modeling, is a contest of skill and creativity the right methodology? Contests alienate the unskilled and work toward the advantage of those that have been practicing for long periods of time. Human nature is to enter a contest to win, not learn something new.

 

[GrimGriz]

I'm remotely interested in modeling, but turned off by the concept I'd have to buy software to do it.

 

[YM]

Anyway I think a modelling contest would be useful for those who wants to start modelling, I would make tutorials if this contest comes out, and everybody interested would learn how easy is to make props for Source and add them in their maps.

You'd think the same for a texturing contest, but the texturing contests we've had so far have recieved very little intrest and since modeling requires even more unique skills I doubt we'd get many (if any).

I also think you're totally wrong about mapping = modeling. Not to deny that modeling is indeed an artform in its own and a very important part of game design but modeling compliments the work you do in your mapping. The map has to contain the base brushwork with really the models only there to make it look pretty, and since the gameplay is fantasticly more important than the aesthetics having beautiful custom models falls to a very insignificant part of mapping, especially as we have so many great models at our disposal already.

Perhaps a trial-run of a modeling contest would be best, say we pick a theme like 'mining' and allow people to submit either a model, a texture, a small section of a map (or any combination of the three). This would allow us to gauge how many people are interested in modeling or texturing for contests.

 

[Rexy]

I'm remotely interested in modeling, but turned off by the concept I'd have to buy software to do it.

Blender is free and is highly regarded as professional software by a lot of people, anyone want to back me up on that?

http://www.blender.org/

 

[Fraz]

Perhaps a trial-run of a modeling contest would be best, say we pick a theme like 'mining' and allow people to submit either a model, a texture, a small section of a map (or any combination of the three). This would allow us to gauge how many people are interested in modeling or texturing for contests.

I like that idea for a contest, it would be pretty cool.

 

[Icarus]

if we do it should be "spytech". We don't get enough of that.

 

[Spike]

I also think you're totally wrong about mapping = modeling. Not to deny that modeling is indeed an artform in its own and a very important part of game design but modeling compliments the work you do in your mapping. The map has to contain the base brushwork with really the models only there to make it look pretty, and since the gameplay is fantasticly more important than the aesthetics having beautiful custom models falls to a very insignificant part of mapping, especially as we have so many great models at our disposal already.

I would answer it with a quote to myself that I said above:

Yes you're right on the modelling is not the same as mapping , it's just I think modelling is part of mapping.

So what I think is you can't map without models (unless you're doing a orange box), so if you want to make something not common in the game, you need to know modelling.

You'd think the same for a texturing contest, but the texturing contests we've had so far have recieved very little intrest and since modeling requires even more unique skills I doubt we'd get many (if any).

Perhaps a trial-run of a modeling contest would be best, say we pick a theme like 'mining' and allow people to submit either a model, a texture, a small section of a map (or any combination of the three). This would allow us to gauge how many people are interested in modeling or texturing for contests

I think texture contest are not well planned. Doing a texture without any reason it's not very cool. But making a prop that you can add to your map is something that people likes more than doing a texture if you're not going to use it.

So making a modelling contest would encourage those who wants to start modelling, then we could make a prop-pack of the entries so everyone can use it on their map.

For example, first modelling contest, Making a Mining Prop. People will use all the models made on the contest for the dustbowl-like maps.

I'm remotely interested in modeling, but turned off by the concept I'd have to buy software to do it.

You can use XSI MOD Tool, it's free and it has its own Valve format exporter/importer

 

[Pink_Panther]

So what I think is you can't map without models (unless you're doing a orange box), so if you want to make something not common in the game, you need to know modelling.

i guess my 40+ hl1/2, 20+ doom/heretic/hexan, 10+ wolfenstein3d maps aren't maps after all.

modelling is a new concept in map making, they are completely unnessary to complete a map, they just complement something that is already there.

 

[Spike]

i guess my 40+ hl1/2, 20+ doom/heretic/hexan, 10+ wolfenstein3d maps aren't maps after all.

modelling is a new concept in map making, they are completely unnessary to complete a map, they just complement something that is already there.

We're talking about Source... you know?

 

[Pink_Panther]

We're talking about Source... you know?

yes. Source is one of many engines that have been used to make a FPS environment. If i remember correctly, you did bring up another game in your post too. something about how another game uses 100% models? I point out the older games because they had no models at all and were extreamely successful because the mapping was done properly and made to be interesting.

My point is that your looking at one aspect that is actually fairly new to the gaming world. If you look over everyones post, they agree that models are good and useful mapping tools. The difference is that we think the models add to the map, where your protraying that models are the map when they are not.

We are trying to show you that the brushs make the environment we all play in. they provide the gameplay, the flow of a player movement, and for the base for everything else. If your base is lacking, it doesn't matter how many extra details you add (aka models) you still end up with a square room with some random obstructions which look pretty.

 

[Nineaxis]

People, let's stay on track here, this is mapping with the TF2 Source SDK. Plenty of other engines exist, other games exists, and on and on.

We concern ourselves with TF2. Let's have TF2 Source-centric contests, and keep discussion to TF2 level creation.

 

[Spike]

yes. Source is one of many engines that have been used to make a FPS environment. If i remember correctly, you did bring up another game in your post too. something about how another game uses 100% models? I point out the older games because they had no models at all and were extreamely successful because the mapping was done properly and made to be interesting.

My point is that your looking at one aspect that is actually fairly new to the gaming world. If you look over everyones post, they agree that models are good and useful mapping tools. The difference is that we think the models add to the map, where your protraying that models are the map when they are not.

I also said HL1 was brush based. And again, I said models are as important as brushes, I didn't say models were the things that makes the map.

And let's just end the discussion here.

kthnxbai :closedeyes:

 

[DaBeatzProject]

I think someone will have to group all the good idea's togheter (probably an admin or moderator), and make a voting thread:
Vote for the idea you like, and when you don't like the idea with the most votes, it's your problem cause it looks like others do like it.. and hopefully/maybe there won't be any discussion anymore..

 

[Dox]

And let's just end the discussion here.

kthnxbai :closedeyes:

SOOOOoooo close to ending that argument in a civil manner, lol.

 

[Pink_Panther]

You know, all the contests so far have been straight forward items with a serious nature. Maybe the next should be something purely for the fun of it.

So, how bout just a 'silly map' contest. Keep it sorta small maybe 5 or 6 rooms. I bet more people than me have some odd idea for a map that we know would never work as a normal map, but would be fun just to see it/build it/make people laugh/etc.