CP Coldfront

[Icarus]

It was the last major issues that needed to be fixed :O

I just wanted to get it over and done with so I can relax for a while.

 

[Ida]

All of these fences should be changed. Even for an experienced TF2 player, it's not always easy to understand that these fences are solid, since it makes much more sense to be able to shoot through them, and they're never usually placed anywhere else than on the edges of maps. You should move the tall ones to the right so you can't draw a line through them and further into the map. A good solution for the left ones is to put some corrugated metal sheets on them.

And a tiny oversight: Some of the lights in BLU's spawn, near the floor, are red.


I also tried the KOTH version today (I guess feedback for that goes here as well?) and while it's a perfectly decent map, I think you need to do more than just rip it from the CP version. The concept of defending the control point is a little different in KOTH, considering the fact that the defenders always will get reinforcements to pour onto the point. I felt like I could never set foot in the middle area without being completely overwhelmed. Usually my enemy either had a height advantage (middle/left entrance) or a sightline advantage (right cliff - I played Heavy). In short, you need to make it much harder to defend, and maybe reduce the capture timer.

 

[littleedge]

It would appear I have taught you well after Vector. You've learned in the way of the clipping.

I only did BLU base to mid. I will assume RED has similar problems.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0000.jpg
Floating lights.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0005.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0006.jpg
Red lights in BLU base?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0002.jpg
Odd shadow.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0003.jpg
I'm on that column kinda thing along the wall. They're all possible to stand on.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0008.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0007.jpg
I'm on that door.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0009.jpg
That just looks weird.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0011.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0012.jpg
Both aren't really that great of a spot to jump on, and they're both kind of hard to get to, so I dunno if it's really that imperative to fix that.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0013.jpg
I can get on parts of the fences on either side of mid. If I weren't allowed on any part of them, I'd be fine with such a low fence blocking me off entirely but it's odd to be able to get on some and not others.

 

[Icarus]

@Muffin:

Yeah, I've been playing TF2 for so long, the fence-collisions came naturally to me now.

My logic is stuck at TF2-mode

 

[Icarus]

Reposting what I posted on GotFrag

Addressing some of the most common complaints:

(A) The ramp flank is a "deathtrap" for attackers. As it is now, it's essentially a one-way for the defenders to use, because of the massive height advantage. At the same time, there have been a few complaints that CP2 is still difficult to flank.
I believe I'm going to make a few simple, but effective changes to address both of these issues.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/831776/cp_coldfront_b3pro0000.jpg
-Raise the ground a whole level, essentially halving the height advantage
-Rotate the ramp so it faces the other way.

This way, attackers spend significantly less time in the "deathtrap", and the ramp now exits on the other side of the room. This would make it a much more viable and attractive flank route for attackers.

(B) Last -can- be frustrating to defend at times. A lot of it has to do with the fact that the defenders always seem to be at a disadvantage, and can be struck at any angle. I'm considering adding the glass onto the CP, ala Badlands, as it would
A) Provide the defenders a part of the area where they can feel relatively safe from long-range attacks and
B) Allow a defender to stand on the CP and feel safer, since scouts would not be able to attack from all sides

(C) Distance from Spawn->Mid. As it is currently, the walking time is exactly the same as Granary's. However, half of the standard comp team don't walk --they Jump. I'm hoping that raising the ceiling on both 2nd and last will help.
NOTE:New maps always feel large to players because it is largely unknown, and unfamiliar areas are always being discovered. But over time, as players begin to understand the layout, the feeling of "largeness" will dissipate.

(D) I'm trying to think of a way to make mid more interesting. It become really obvious when I played a little KOTH on it. I haven't had much time to think about it, though.


IMO, The simplest solution is usually the best.

 

[Tinker]

Of course, what you've got to look out for now is that it doesn't become too much like granary, with almost exactly the same way to enter CP2. Comp players like new things, so if a map isn't too different, hey, why not just play the one that we don't have to download

As for the changes, I always felt that for last the major problem is that the attackers have a height advantage in general by keeping to the sides, and can pretty much push in, get damaged, retreat, and try again that way. One way to give defenders a little edge would be to make something around the point - maybe a staircase going around it, so you can drop on the point from the sides? Something alike would also help making the last point a little bit more interesting, I think, plus it would not give it a special twist instead of making it like Badlands.

I think you shouldn't change mid too much. It's clean, simple, and fun.

 

[PMAvers]

Played a few rounds last week. All in all, it's definitely looking good. Had some good back and forth action on b3.

Only comment that really stuck out was that the spawn times seemed to be a bit long. Having a 19 second spawn time and then having to trudge all the way out to the middle point may be a little much.

 

[demoman501]

Very nice map the atmosphere is pretty dead on with the map. I like how the capture point is a destroyed building leaving lots of combat from soldiers and demo men. Good work on it.

 

[Icarus]

Download:
Mirror 1
Mirror 2
Mirror 3

Release Notes, B4 (Release Candidate)
Changes to cp_coldfront include:
-Raised cave ceilings in indoor areas by roughly 50%
-Added glass barriers around final CPs
-Remade ramp room flank into CP2 to improve flow
-Added props near mid to curb sniper sightlines
-Added new ledges near mid
-Reduced volume of ambient sounds
-Increased trigger area for garage doors
-Fixed players getting caught on spawn doors
-Several visual and performance improvements

 

[honeymustard]

Is it still possible to sticky jump from one side of the map to the other?

 

[grazr]

i wasn't going to mention it at first as your were in early development, but since you're getting into your beta's now i figured it might be worth bringing up (since little's screen (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_coldfront_b3pro0008.jpg) reminded me).

You can increase the "curve" capacity of overlays by halving the overlays start/end distances.

Having an overlay with a U/V end at 0.5 cuts the overlay in half, and the next starting at 0.5 and ending at 1 will add the other half of the overlay to complete the tile/texture pattern. Effectively allowing you to double the capacity to curve your overlays. Or even more if you decide to go to lower decimals (0.25), but that shouldn't really be necassery/is a little excessive.

If you know what i'm talking about? Lol... Otherwise i'll throw a pic up to illustrate what i mean.

 

[Icarus]

Is it still possible to sticky jump from one side of the map to the other?

Yes

If you know what i'm talking about? Lol... Otherwise i'll throw a pic up to illustrate what i mean.

I get it. thanks.

 

[honeymustard]

Ok. I don't know if it's necessarily a problem, but I'm sure it'll be obvious either way after people play more 6v6 on it.

 

[Randdalf]

Ok. I don't know if it's necessarily a problem, but I'm sure it'll be obvious either way after people play more 6v6 on it.

You can do it on Badlands without any harm being done.

 

[grazr]

The map played nicely as long as people stuck together, but the spawn times seemed a little off. i was getting 16-20 and that was on the winning team a lot of the time too. I dunno what that was about? Those are the sort of max times you see in ctf mode.

It was mostly noticable because travel time to mid was a little on the long side, so the total wait time to get into combat was that much more invasive. Something that's just a result of having a linear layout unlike badlands which allows you to "short cut" to the mid; you might consider reducing the spawn waves by a second or two just to balance out with the total time between players dying and combat.

But these are just my suggestions on an empty-ish (5vs5?) server and with horrific reg no less (Don't know what that was about). If people say it's ok then yea, you'd probably best leave it until more people comment on it.

edit: Oh yea, your final point seemed rather large, and in an open way too. It makes it hard to defend immediately on the point. Being on that low ground makes it impossible to see where the enemy is coming from until it is too late. Even though it did swing back and forth a couple times, which was in part due to the syncing/de-syncronisation of spawn waves versus point captures. edit: it might be worth removing the large walls and replacing them with railings (with ibeams/pillars to keep a certain amount of cover), whilst reducing the space on the low ground, making it more viable to defend from the higher flanks without fear of allowing enemy players to walk onto the point and not being able to intercept them.

 

[mdawgmike]

Wow! I really like what I see with both this and the KOTH versions. They both play amazingly good from what I've seen, and seems like they would make excellent community map picks. We'll be looking at both versions tonight at 8pm CDT on my community's server if you would like to come and see. I added you to my friends list to try and give you the server info. Accept if interested.

Also I'll have some optimized/tweaked nav meshes (one of my projects for the TF2 bots) if you'd like.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Icarus]

Wow, Grazr, you just gave me the PERFECT solution I've been looking for last. Defenders have been having an abysmal time on their last, and it's partially due to how hard it is to reach it. This is going to fix it up nicely.

RC1 will be out next week. It's finally over.

 

[Vincent]

Awesome, I'm looking forward to the final release.
I tried to join the gameday but the server kept acting up, sorry.

 

[Citizen Snips]

The only thing I see wrong with the map is that on the second points you can see right through the roof to the skyline, which is kinda surreal. Other than that, it's great. The design in the middle and final points are great, and I love the atmospheric effects.

 

[Penguin]

The shovels jutting out of the snowdrift outside the first forward spawn made me smile.