CP Bazillion RC5

[Wilson]

all it takes is a nice rock to make a good map with you people. :/

:crying:

But prestige....

 

[Tinker]

yeah, that's stone cold, man

 

[Arnold]

http://imgur.com/hIjhP.jpg

 

[Arnold]

download a13
http://maps.toaster.fi./cp_bazillion_a13.bsp.bz2

 

[Tyker]

I really like the changes in the theme, mid and second. I think it has improved a lot.
In the 2 screenshots are some issues though. In the first one, why is that door there? You are going to be in view anyway because to reach that corridor you trigger the door to open. And in the second one, an engy got up there somehow?
But apart from that, I liked it.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Clipping off the vents would be a good idea. And while the new mid does play smoother, i dont like it as much. For me, that funny rock with a hole in it was the image i had in mind when i thought of bazillion, like badland's spire or 2fort's bridges. Shame it didnt work out.

Now that last week's nostalgia is over, i want to agree with Tyker on this.

In the first one, why is that door there?

Normally Bazillion has such a good layout. Take a route, and you can be pretty sure you'll end up where yu expected to, which is about as good as you can ask for. That door strikes a bit of a bum note though, three times i went through it expecting to get a good flank or height advantage, and it always went to the same place. Also, its over-complex to reach the upper levels on defense. Simplifying the final point slightly, to give attack fewer routes might be a positive thing.

Also, what happened to the drop-down onto B/D? That was fun, and quite useful with the new layout. Certainly worth trying again. (unless you had it, and its already decided not to work.)

Though, overall, i'm very much enjoying bazillion. One to watch, certainly.

 

[Arnold]

I'm not that happy with mid at the moment, might take another overhaul to really get it to where it's unique and fun to play on.

Overall pretty happy with 2nd, might try the dropdown again.

Will remove the little nook or useless room, i'll make it into a window so you can peek trough and see what's going on on the other side.

Last might still need tweaking but capping on the bottom doesn't really work at this stage.

 

[Arnold]

 

[The Political Gamer]

When did Gullywash have a baby?

>.>
<.<

 

[red_flame586]

I like the look of the building, though anyone who doesn't really know the layout of the map that well could run past it thinking it was just there for cover, you really need to make it a lot more obvious that it's a split point instead of just some hazard stripes, a small overlay and a difficult/easily missable cp model, unreachable inside the shed.

 

[Arnold]

changed the lighting and added some detail

 

[tyler]

Wow, I love the new lighting.

 

[Okrag]

I'd say that in order to make the middle cap point more obviously split, make the cap point visible from the capture zones. Plus then you can see who is on the other side, adding an element of strategy.

 

[Arnold]

well i had that at first, but that wouldn't really add strategy it would retract from it, i could make a slight gap so you can at least see something but i don't want the entire thing to bee see trough because then a scout can just dick around the point avoiding any slower class while capping.

 

[Tyker]

I didn't get to play for long, but I really liked the changes you made. The underside of the middle CP still feels useless though. I guess it depends on if you are mapping for 16, 24 or 32 man servers. For 32 it will probably be useful, for anything less I think it will stay empty most of the match.

 

[grazr]

Map had a lot of unchecked sightlines. Particularly problematic at mid where you can block a cap from the opposite side of the tower. This just delayed progress through the map. I actually tried this design in a CP map last year and it kinda worked, but it didn't have such huge sightlines where a sniper could cover left and right. A team that won combat were heald up by a scout on the point and a sniper further back. As i already stated, it just holds up the maps potentially faster gameplay and just has people standing around waiting for someone else to make the first suicidal move.

You've made the points incredibly difficult to capture. Even with what i've said about the middle, CP2 being on that platform where attackers have to throw their backs to the defenders whom also have the advantage of focusing splash damage against the wall behind...

Concerns:

• The map has a lot of unused space
• The map has almost no cover besides varying corners and walls
• The map feels slightly larger than it should be. Shrinking it by 10% would feel right when you come to also include some details and cover. It doesn't sound like much but when i did it to my 5cp map is was exactly what was needed to make it feel more "comfortable".
• Ammo drops? i didn't see much of this. We only had 14 out of 24 players at this point so a lot of combat was 1on1/2on2 and people picking up weapons drops from players. But in larger teams you can't garauntee a player can grab a weapon from a fallen enemy.
• Walk to mid is loooong.

 

[Arnold]

Map had a lot of unchecked sightlines. Particularly problematic at mid where you can block a cap from the opposite side of the tower. This just delayed progress through the map. I actually tried this design in a CP map last year and it kinda worked, but it didn't have such huge sightlines where a sniper could cover left and right. A team that won combat were heald up by a scout on the point and a sniper further back. As i already stated, it just holds up the maps potentially faster gameplay and just has people standing around waiting for someone else to make the first suicidal move.

You've made the points incredibly difficult to capture. Even with what i've said about the middle, CP2 being on that platform where attackers have to throw their backs to the defenders whom also have the advantage of focusing splash damage against the wall behind...

Concerns:

• The map has a lot of unused space
• The map has almost no cover besides varying corners and walls
• The map feels slightly larger than it should be. Shrinking it by 10% would feel right when you come to also include some details and cover. It doesn't sound like much but when i did it to my 5cp map is was exactly what was needed to make it feel more "comfortable".
• Ammo drops? i didn't see much of this. We only had 14 out of 24 players at this point so a lot of combat was 1on1/2on2 and people picking up weapons drops from players. But in larger teams you can't garauntee a player can grab a weapon from a fallen enemy.
• Walk to mid is loooong.

I'm not sure the map has a lot of unused space, i'm thinking of clipping some rooms though.

Walk to mid isn't that long, it's about the same as granary and closer to badlands.

Will review the ammo placement again.

Map does have some sightline issues, i'll be trying to minimize those when i come to detailing.

I actually really like middle cp, i will still tweak it but i don't think that having to coorperate as a team is a bad thing.

 

[honeymustard]

I played in the game day but can't really pass judgement on a 30 min test, but I did like the overall feel of the map. If you are going to rework the middle point a bit, I would make the capture zones a bit bigger, purely to give it a grander feel. It's always clear when you are at the middle point on 5CP maps, but on this, when I first ran up to it, it felt like just another point, if you know what I mean.

 

[grazr]

Yea, it was hard to determine what was the middle and what was in fact the point. You need a massive sign above the capture area on both sides, pointing down. So it's uber obvious that you need to capture there; since the point is hidden within the towering structure.

"having to cooperate as a team" isn't the problem. A sniper holding off 4 players from capturing mid because a scout is blocking the capture out of sight is. Being forced to stand around for several tens of seconds was annoying. There's no two ways about it. Your map stalemated during gameplay and that is the issue.

What i mean by a lot of unused space is that there's a lot of space players don't use, not that it isn't detailed or themed. Because your travel distances are so far the route players take are very direct and predictable( to cut their travel time down as much as possible), whilst combat revolves mostly on the point. The distances also mean sentries arn't that useful unless they are wrangler/mini.

It just feels a bit weird playing your map, like you're forcing players to utilise certain spaces how you want them and it's restrictive on classes who find themselves in a situation where they don't work. Obviously that'll happen from time to time but when playing through your map i felt like "soldier's go here, snipers go here, spy's will use this corridor etc" and the gameplay should be more fluid than that.

Other things i would suggest are:
Removing the walls on CP1.
Removing the drop down at CP1 or lower it (players shouldn't be presented with fall damage if it can be avoided).
Remove or lower that area for attackers where they capture CP4 then move up the stairs past the door. Fall damage again and an unreasonable height for TF2.
Make a bridge to CP2.
Open up the space between CP 2 and 3. I know it's in contradiction to how i said there was unused space but the area fenced off could be utilised but instead it's forcing players into a linear path.

 

[honeymustard]

I enjoyed the map a lot more tonight. Think I left quite a bit of feedback through the plugin. Other than that, last caps way too slowly from what I could tell. Clip off the vents. It seemed like there were a lot of ways attackers could come at you when defending cp4 (ie them pushing out from their last point) which was a bit confusing.