KotH Santo [Deleted]

[Grizzly Berry]

Santo - A King of the Hill map based on the island of Santorini.

koth_santo is a King of the Hill map inspired by the island of Santorini located in Greece.

After seeing Ilios in Overwatch, I really wanted to give the theme a try in TF2. Bak beat me to it, but that just means I can steal his detailing.

 

[Lain]

Try to not completely copy Overwatch in terms of its detailing, Ilios is very noisy and has very low buildings that will make your map feel underscaled. Not to mention that Ilios looks nothing like Santorini and has very unique detailing.

Maybe try and take some cues from FMPone's de_santorini, I think it does the mediterranean theme so much better, with less full-white white surfaces and a lot less boring dome-topped buildings.

And while we're at it, crits on the current version:
- Everything is too bright, instead of color textures, maybe use flat reflects?
- Some color variation would be nice, red lattices on red side would do the trick.
- The models near the point building are not packed.
- Lacking any real major height variation, which might make the map a little uninteresting.
- The spawns aren't too great, they look like some Thunder Mountain stage 2 shit, spawn camping for days.

 

[Bakscratch]

Here is something I made for reference.

 

[seth]

Wow this theme is getting milked dry.

 

[Grizzly Berry]

Wow this theme is getting milked dry.

Only other TF2 map I've seen with this theme is Eros. I wouldn't really consider 2 maps "getting milked dry". This is something I just threw together to warm up for the 72hr Jam this weekend.

 

[seth]

Only other TF2 map I've seen with this theme is Eros. I wouldn't really consider 2 maps "getting milked dry". This is something I just threw together to warm up for the 72hr Jam this weekend.

I don't mean just in TF2. First FMPone did it, then Blizzard, now you and Bak, all in the span of a few months.

 

[Yrr]

first the real life greek island of santorini did it, then sonic, pokemon, and all manner of Video Entertainment

 

[Viemärirotta]

Oh that's why everything looks milked.

 

[EArkham]

First desert, then alpine, and winter, and even Egypt. Now we have Japanese, medieval, Borneo, Mayan, and even World War Freaking II, and people are worried because there's now Santorini maps?

When will this unceasing variety ever end!?

 

[Pocket]

Well, I mean, Santorini is a single town IRL. Japan is a whole country, there's a lot of desert in the US, alpine theme could be anywhere in the northern US or Canada (or even the actual Alps if you ignore the signs being in English). And outside of Kong King and maybe Rottenburg, there aren't even any official maps that claim to take place in a specific real-world place.

Seeing one person release a map that takes place in Real World Place X and then someone else do likewise immediately afterwards... it reminds me of when animation studios were constantly copying each other's premises out of some weird assumption that so-and-so is "in" this year, or whatever their rationale was.

 

[Yrr]

e: this was a dumb rude post and i deleted it to write this

the thing is that some real life locations have a unique visual style thats aesthetically pleasing enough to inspire a lot of people

(also cp_yukon is unsurprisingly set in the yukon)

 

[Grizzly Berry]

Well, I mean, Santorini is a single town IRL. Japan is a whole country, there's a lot of desert in the US, alpine theme could be anywhere in the northern US or Canada (or even the actual Alps if you ignore the signs being in English). And outside of Kong King and maybe Rottenburg, there aren't even any official maps that claim to take place in a specific real-world place.

Seeing one person release a map that takes place in Real World Place X and then someone else do likewise immediately afterwards... it reminds me of when animation studios were constantly copying each other's premises out of some weird assumption that so-and-so is "in" this year, or whatever their rationale was.

There are many Greek islands with similar architecture to Santorini, perhaps just not as well known. Check out Mykonos, Ios, and Paros.

I was inspired after seeing Ilios in Overwatch and have wanted to use the theme ever since. I'm not a very experience mapper, so I wasn't sure how to go about it immediately, but seeing Eros by Bak gave me some ideas. I don't see any harm in that.

 

[seth]

Santorini is such a specific, specialized theme though. Alpine could literally be anything with trees and hills and grass. Desert is anything with a desert. Winter is anything with snow. These "themes" exist all over the planet many times over. You are free to detail them however the fuck you want. But there is no other place like Santorini and the fact that so many people have riffed off each other in such a small space of time makes the theme stale and uninteresting. Everybody has that dome from this picture, everyone has the blue fences and white walls. It makes sense because that's what Santorini looks like, but since it's so specific it doesn't leave room for variety or uniqueness.

 

[Yrr]

you could say the same for rome tbh

 

[Grizzly Berry]

Santorini is such a specific, specialized theme though. Alpine could literally be anything with trees and hills and grass. Desert is anything with a desert. Winter is anything with snow. These "themes" exist all over the planet many times over. You are free to detail them however the fuck you want. But there is no other place like Santorini and the fact that so many people have riffed off each other in such a small space of time makes the theme stale and uninteresting. Everybody has that dome from this picture, everyone has the blue fences and white walls. It makes sense because that's what Santorini looks like, but since it's so specific it doesn't leave room for variety or uniqueness.

Like I said, there haven't been many maps, and only two for TF2. It's not an issue in my opinion. There have been hundreds of maps in the themes you've mentioned and there will be hundreds that follow. I don't see a problem with a very small group of people making maps with a theme not seen before in TF2. I'm having fun doing it, and that's what matters to me. I don't foresee a large number of Santorini-themed maps popping up.

 

[seth]

Like I said, there haven't been many maps, and only two for TF2. It's not an issue in my opinion. There have been hundreds of maps in the themes you've mentioned and there will be hundreds that follow. I don't see a problem with a very small group of people making maps with a theme not seen before in TF2. I'm having fun doing it, and that's what matters to me. I don't foresee a large number of Santorini-themed maps popping up.

Again, I wasn't singling out TF2. If you want to make a Santorini map, do it. You're having fun and that's great. I'm not questioning your taste or whatever floats your boat. I'm just saying Santorini has no potential to be thematically unique because everything will have to look like Santorini, a very specific and unique place by itself. So Eros, Ilios, de_santorini, and now this will all look essentially identical despite their unique layouts. Sounds like you're cool with that so definitely carry on.

I like your maps, Grizzly. Seriously. But this theme is a dead end.

 

[Bakscratch]

Again, I wasn't singling out TF2. If you want to make a Santorini map, do it. You're having fun and that's great. I'm not questioning your taste or whatever floats your boat. I'm just saying Santorini has no potential to be thematically unique because everything will have to look like Santorini, a very specific and unique place by itself. So Eros, Ilios, de_santorini, and now this will all look essentially identical despite their unique layouts. Sounds like you're cool with that so definitely carry on.

I like your maps, Grizzly. Seriously. But this theme is a dead end.

Yeah go back to badlands!

 

[Yrr]

I like your maps, Grizzly. Seriously. But this theme is a dead end.

"anything but badlands sucks because its been done before"
"whats that? badlands has been done before too? i dont believe you"

 

[Muddy]

I really don't like the attitude a lot of people here seem to have, that if what you're doing isn't unique and original then you should just not bother.

And anyway, why does it matter to you so much what theme people use?

also remind me why we can't disagree with posts in the map workshop

 

[Izotope]

also remind me why we can't disagree with posts in the map workshop

So people can't go "downvote" mapupdates without leaving any construtive criticism.