I didnt, but since your statement (at least to me) was incorrect on what the problem was i didnt comment on that. But anyway, since i comment on that part again lets give my feedback on why i think you were incorrect there:
Even a spawn for turtles doesnt directly have to give a bad influence, it based on why it exists and where. In a CTF map you want to be able to get enough metal near the intel, on 2fort both upstairs spawns are too far away from that (2x going through the spiral isnt realy what you can call fast. in most ctf/cp/pl maps the walk for metal only a third of that length). Im comparing to maps that have proven to work even though they are in some cases turtle friendly.
A large ammo pack could provide the metal, but it would seriously hinder those that want to build 3 sentries as group of 3. They should still be able to do so, this is a part of teamwork aswel. In 2fort that extra locker is the fastest way to gain metal unhindered. And it is far away enough and at a place where a nest near that locker doesnt work (just below a staircase allows for some easy spam).
Stating turtling is bad in any situation is incorrect. Most A/D type maps force the red team to turtle. For a linear map this can still be the same because turtling can be the only way to defend against a team that is clearly stronger, it might in some cases give you the chance to defend. And this teamwork should still be rewarded. Against better players your nest in 2fort will still die because they can communicate to get 3 medics and 2 demoman ready to invade the area.
2fort only has the worst possible turtling because of that first barrier of a respawn room you already have to face. Thats where the problem starts, not at the bottom. Doublecross even shows a similar situation, except that map has at least some flanking options allowing you to completely avoid the sentry nest near the respawn rooms. In 2fort there isnt such option, there is 1 place only 128HU from the door where a sentry can look at all paths leading to the intel.
And yes, moving the tunnel can be a good thing on that. I will not argue on that (and thats why i didnt put that in the quote), but the lower respawn room is realy there for a reason.
Even a spawn for turtles doesnt directly have to give a bad influence, it based on why it exists and where. In a CTF map you want to be able to get enough metal near the intel, on 2fort both upstairs spawns are too far away from that (2x going through the spiral isnt realy what you can call fast. in most ctf/cp/pl maps the walk for metal only a third of that length). Im comparing to maps that have proven to work even though they are in some cases turtle friendly.
A large ammo pack could provide the metal, but it would seriously hinder those that want to build 3 sentries as group of 3. They should still be able to do so, this is a part of teamwork aswel. In 2fort that extra locker is the fastest way to gain metal unhindered. And it is far away enough and at a place where a nest near that locker doesnt work (just below a staircase allows for some easy spam).
Stating turtling is bad in any situation is incorrect. Most A/D type maps force the red team to turtle. For a linear map this can still be the same because turtling can be the only way to defend against a team that is clearly stronger, it might in some cases give you the chance to defend. And this teamwork should still be rewarded. Against better players your nest in 2fort will still die because they can communicate to get 3 medics and 2 demoman ready to invade the area.
2fort only has the worst possible turtling because of that first barrier of a respawn room you already have to face. Thats where the problem starts, not at the bottom. Doublecross even shows a similar situation, except that map has at least some flanking options allowing you to completely avoid the sentry nest near the respawn rooms. In 2fort there isnt such option, there is 1 place only 128HU from the door where a sentry can look at all paths leading to the intel.
And yes, moving the tunnel can be a good thing on that. I will not argue on that (and thats why i didnt put that in the quote), but the lower respawn room is realy there for a reason.
