Update on the Halloween Update

[grazr]

Well i think the issue is more that they made a TC map, it failed to meet expectations and they moved on and made Payload and KoTH in its stead.

It's largely up to the mapping community to tackle it if they wish, Shmitz made meridian and YM is making strata.

But did Hydro fail? I thought it was a great map it was only put down by the lack of other maps of it's gamemode.

Not really, hydro's primary issue is that it stalemates; and community discussion agrees that it's related to tight chokes, a lack of alternative flanks and the tendency for progression (such as starting a capture) to be lost.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

The next contest (if it isn't an artpass) should be a tiny/big map contest...

Koth and TC maps...


I think doom brought up a good point, if a TC map was made with yards inbetween points, rather than chokes, it would play a LOT better.

 

[Terwonick]

that's true, I wish we had enough room for that to be possible... but the engine limits are getting smaller every day!

 

[Prestige]

The next contest (if it isn't an artpass) should be a tiny/big map contest...

Koth and TC maps...


I think doom brought up a good point, if a TC map was made with yards inbetween points, rather than chokes, it would play a LOT better.

yeah, kinda like turbine or granary mid (with the tc points being somewhere around 2nd, probably close). point -> choke -> fun arena/yard -> choke-> point

 

[grazr]

Well there's a reason that isn't already the case. As YM has already pointed out for us in his initial experiements with tc_strata, there's just not the room. He had to remove one of the "diagonal" rounds in order to widen the paths between the other 2 areas to avoid hydro like (tiny corridor) chokes.

And what with this apparent t-junction limit being significantly lowered recently i see it being very difficult to pull off such a large scale map again in the future. "In development" steel type maps such as Ezekel's cp_gothic have already encountered said lowered engine limits and it's only just going through its initial beta testing.

It's just a shame that previous bi-annual contests have been ruined by gimmick limitations like the "competitive" CTF contest. I'd really like to see mroe CTF maps, i still feel there aren't enough, but it seems kinda redundant to do another CTF contest after our previous A/D CTF and "comp" CTF contests.

Does "petrol" really play that well? If we do do an artpass contest we need to make sure the layout works and maybe even go through a pre-bi-annual contest with a mini-layout contest and the winner goes through to the artpass bi-annual contest.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

that's true, I wish we had enough room for that to be possible... but the engine limits are getting smaller every day!

"In development" steel type maps such as Ezekel's cp_gothic have already encountered said lowered engine limits and it's only just going through its initial beta testing.

I just want to note, VBSP changed, not the engine. Moreover it couldn't without breaking existing maps. From what I could tell examining Gothic and doing some experiments, the change in VBSP's construction of the map isn't wholly negative, as some/most of the detrimental changes can be avoided through specific construction, much like the waterindex limit has been avoided in the past.

 

[Rexy]

I haven't even attempted to compile a version of zinkenite yet since the update, I am fearful, because I encountered so many limitations before to pull it into a manageable size and have to wonder how much more scraping I'll have to do to get it working again.

Off topic (sort of), but related to the continuing discussion.

 

[gamemaster1996]

I know this doesn't solve anything but is there any difference in limitations between source engine versions? (e.g Higher Limitations in portal 2 engine)

 

[Pocket]

It's just a shame that previous bi-annual contests have been ruined by gimmick limitations like the "competitive" CTF contest. I'd really like to see mroe CTF maps, i still feel there aren't enough, but it seems kinda redundant to do another CTF contest after our previous A/D CTF and "comp" CTF contests.

The "comp" thing was just a server var, if I recall correctly; all those maps can be played with the normal settings, and since the whole idea of mapping for comp CTF is to make it harder to turtle, they should actually play better than the existing CTF maps.

I haven't even attempted to compile a version of zinkenite yet since the update, I am fearful, because I encountered so many limitations before to pull it into a manageable size and have to wonder how much more scraping I'll have to do to get it working again.

Did Valve actually give a reason for the changes? It might have just been a mistake, and either way you should probably get in touch with them about it. Especially if they see the unfinished Zinkenite; they'll be all like "Oh shit we're stopping THAT from getting finished? Can't have that!"