Things We Don't Like About TF2

[Rasputin]

Generally it's up to players to find the problems, developers to fix them. Same idea with mapping, testing and feedback reveal issues, and it's up to you to fix them.

Then where lies the difference between constructive criticism and complaining?

I can say, "Oh this shit sucks, I don't like this shit. Why don't you fix this shit?" but where would that leave the developer? Without the critic's input all the developer can do is go by their limited understanding of the audience's reaction and, in the end, fail to please anyone at all.

Good map feedback is rarely, "this area is overbalanced," it needs to describe why the area is unbalanced and in their reasoning, it will at least hint at a method of fixing it.

 

[Seba]

props_medieval\capflag\capflag.mdl still has broken normals

 

[Moose]

Then where lies the difference between constructive criticism and complaining?

I can say, "Oh this shit sucks, I don't like this shit. Why don't you fix this shit?" but where would that leave the developer? Without the critic's input all the developer can do is go by their limited understanding of the audience's reaction and, in the end, fail to please anyone at all.

Good map feedback is rarely, "this area is overbalanced," it needs to describe why the area is unbalanced and in their reasoning, it will at least hint at a method of fixing it.

First of all, giving a description isn't the same as proposing a solution. I'd say most of the posts in this thread are describing an issue, and there's nothing wrong with that. My point is that giving your own solution won't help much. Chances are that your solution will be ignored and won't reflect what the developer wants. Even if you come up with a good fix, it might not have the same feel the developer was going for.

I trust my own decisions on my map, and I usually feel like I know what I'm doing. If somebody gives me a paintover of a layout change they want to see, I'll probably ignore most of it because I don't like it. It feels bad, since the other guy probably put a lot of thought into those changes, but I want my map play out the way I want it to. I'll bet most other people feel a similar way about this.

EDIT: Oh, and even if you aren't entirely descriptive about an issue, the developer should be able to deduct the source of the problem. For a new mapper descriptions help a lot, since they probably don't understand exactly why something is going wrong just by hearing about it. But for an experienced mapper, these things are usually pretty obvious.

 

[grazr]

Then where lies the difference between constructive criticism and complaining?

I can say, "Oh this shit sucks, I don't like this shit. Why don't you fix this shit?" but where would that leave the developer? Without the critic's input all the developer can do is go by their limited understanding of the audience's reaction and, in the end, fail to please anyone at all.

Good map feedback is rarely, "this area is overbalanced," it needs to describe why the area is unbalanced and in their reasoning, it will at least hint at a method of fixing it.

What you need to realise is that there's a difference between a player and a designer, and their roles in testing their product. When a player explains why he doesn't like something the designer is, or at least should be, capable of coming up with his own solution. The player's solution may or (more likely) may not fit the original brief's criteria. IE what the designer intends to do with his work, what he wants to achieve. If he wants to achieve a lot of height variation to experiment with vertical combat, and there's an imbalance or area players avoid, telling the author to flatten the combat isn't something that's going to be taken lightly.

Suggestions only go down well here because most of us are ammatuer designers so it's for the experienced members in the community to guide them. In their own time, they'll develop the problem solving skills and game knowledge to take their own initiative.

feedback can be both positive and negative. A player might mention that he enjoys a specific height advantage, or complain about a flanking vulnerability. From the designer's perspective, this may or may not be intentional and it's his decision on whether it's acceptable and how he should respond to it if it is not within acceptable gameplay parameters.

 

[Rumia]

The fifth Sniper in my team.

 

[PogoGamingRIki]

Hate servers with bots. They do nothing.

 

[Mr. Happy]

The thing about feedback, is that players suggestions on HOW to fix things are usually wrong since they don't have an intricate understanding of the map/item/whatever. Usually, when a player says "this is broken, fix it in this way" there is a better way to fix it. It's better to try and explain why you don't like something than to suggest a "fix" as that is what is truly helpful.

But not always!

 

[tyler]

Half the time when someone says something is broken they don't understand it at all, and it's their own ignorance that leads to them hating it!

 

[Sergis]

- slowdowns
- low speed+lack of dodging that doesnt let me escape crit sticky flying my way
- falloff crippling long range fighting and imposing range limits on maps
- running into heavy medic pair as a solly, firing off all my rockets or at least two, and seeing heavy still overhealed on killcam
- idiotic term "w+m1"
- scout, solly, demo being so much more mobile than other classes
- heavy being both slow and inaccurate
- i hate when somebody gets an achievement by killing me
- something else i dont remember

 

[Jeremy]

- slowdowns- heavy being both slow and inaccurater

Fast heavy using accurate minigun = I don't even know.