TF2Maps.net Mapping Contest #5: The Art Pass Contest
- Thread starter zpqrei
- Start date
Just be careful you don't modify the spawns, and all of a sudden have players spawning 40 feet further from the exits. I'd imagine there's some wiggle room for the info_spawn placements, but the run distance should still be taken into consideration.
cakeman
L1: Registered
- Jul 18, 2010
- 14
- 46
I would like some clarification on the 'The layout of the map must remain the same' rule. I'm having a bit of an OCD attack (not really) and I would like to recreate the layout in my own style by building over it and then taking out the original pieces. Would this be out of bounds according to the rules? Can I nudge things to slightly different grid locations for the sake of uniformity? Also, am I allowed to do things like redesign the boundary walls and fence area outside BLU spawn, and do things like change window opening dimensions if I feel I need to? These are just examples. Sorry if this all sounds redundant, I just wanted to know for sure before I committed myself to the project.
absurdistof
aa
- Aug 10, 2009
- 1,240
- 399
Wow I can see this has whipped up a lot of attention 
I'm bittersweet about this. On one hand, the contest still remains fresh with the requirements, and I have to say it sounds pretty awesome. On the other hand, I'm not making a map
On a mutated third hand Valve is involved, which is amazing!
But on a fourth hand acquired from an amputation accident, I have never detailed and finished a map :mellow:
I'm bittersweet about this. On one hand, the contest still remains fresh with the requirements, and I have to say it sounds pretty awesome. On the other hand, I'm not making a map
On a mutated third hand Valve is involved, which is amazing!
But on a fourth hand acquired from an amputation accident, I have never detailed and finished a map :mellow:
Darksoul
L1: Registered
- Jul 6, 2009
- 35
- 13
I am still confused on what I am allowed to change/add/remove.
Can I change the limits of the map?
I think not. The players must remain in the original confined space. (Am I wrong?)
Can I edit the dimension of the stairs? make them wider, cut into several ramps?
Can I make doors, corridors wider?
The pit at the end can be made wider/deeper?
(I am obsessed with wide stuff *wink*)
Can I add props to break LOS?
Can I change and/or props?
Can I add structures to change the way zones are divided, and to improve performance?
Can I remove existing displacements?
Or does the art pass is limited to adding only func_detail brushes, props for lighting, textures, effects and...lighting?
Can I change the limits of the map?
I think not. The players must remain in the original confined space. (Am I wrong?)
Can I edit the dimension of the stairs? make them wider, cut into several ramps?
Can I make doors, corridors wider?
The pit at the end can be made wider/deeper?
(I am obsessed with wide stuff *wink*)
Can I add props to break LOS?
Can I change and/or props?
Can I add structures to change the way zones are divided, and to improve performance?
Can I remove existing displacements?
Or does the art pass is limited to adding only func_detail brushes, props for lighting, textures, effects and...lighting?
Can I change the limits of the map?
I'd say yes, but only in places it doesn't matter much and not by a lot, like to the left of blue spawn.
Can I edit the dimension of the stairs? make them wider, cut into several ramps?
I would think so.
Can I make doors, corridors wider?
I would think so as well, but don't make a small hallway massive.
The pit at the end can be made wider/deeper?
I'm not sure about wider, probably not, but deeper, sure.
Can I add props to break LOS?
I'm not sure about this one. It changes the gameplay/sightlines, but I don't know.
Can I change and/or props?
Of course!
Can I add structures to change the way zones are divided, and to improve performance?
Possibly, would they play fairly the same? Does it only alter the layout very slightly?
Can I remove existing displacements?
I should think so.
I'd say yes, but only in places it doesn't matter much and not by a lot, like to the left of blue spawn.
Can I edit the dimension of the stairs? make them wider, cut into several ramps?
I would think so.
Can I make doors, corridors wider?
I would think so as well, but don't make a small hallway massive.
The pit at the end can be made wider/deeper?
I'm not sure about wider, probably not, but deeper, sure.
Can I add props to break LOS?
I'm not sure about this one. It changes the gameplay/sightlines, but I don't know.
Can I change and/or props?
Of course!
Can I add structures to change the way zones are divided, and to improve performance?
Possibly, would they play fairly the same? Does it only alter the layout very slightly?
Can I remove existing displacements?
I should think so.
- Apr 9, 2008
- 1,706
- 1,491
Random question: Any idea who designed this map in particular? I'm just curious.
Corey Peters, I believe.
Leminnes
aa
- Jan 20, 2010
- 1,317
- 902
Oh? Has he done anything else? The People page on Valve's website says he works on Half Life (and it seems he's been with them for a while.)
Last edited:
Mr. Happy
L6: Sharp Member
- Jul 16, 2008
- 320
- 158
To all those questioning what you can and cannot do to the layout, I would suggest not worrying about changes that are within a 10-20% threshold. For example, if you need to move a doorway 16-32 units and then widen a wall by 32 units to make things line up properly with your changes, don't worry about it. Remember, it is IMPOSSIBLE to detail a map, especially when making the architecture nice, not to change things around like this. Think not in terms of keeping the dimensions the same everywhere but keeping the gameplay the same. For example, if a sentry location is moved back 64 units but it can still see just as far (if it's looking at a wall for example) that is not a layout change as it does not affect gameplay.
It is rare and specialized situations affecting only the most skilled players of only a few classes when 8 - 32 units difference changes a tactic. (demoman quickly popping around corners to throw stickies for example). Heck, even the overhangs in CP C and A-building can be mostly removed without affecting gameplay.
Still, I am curious, what if we added something like an overhang with support beams coming down off it that divides a path into two without truly adding new areas? Would this be a layout change? I would think not. Would adding a few soldier/demoman perches be a layout change? I would think not. Would changing the slope of the highly-graded clip brush be a layout change? I would think not. The majority of the changes people are asking about would not change the flow or balance of the map as a whole and would only make minor changes to individual firefights in some specialized circumstances.
The meaning of "layout" is not "shape of areas and routes" but rather "type and character of situations produced by the areas and routes."
Think back on your own maps and the way they evolved through alpha, beta, etc. You might, in alpha, have a building rooftop where an engy can build a sentry, and then in beta you might add a duct on top of it which would block/change exactly were sentries can be built, but it does not change that sentries can be built there.
Everytime you make a change you question, compile and run around the level and see if it FEELS different, if there is a major change in what you feel capable of DOING as each class, then that is a layout change.
You don't JUST want to texture and add models and sounds, the first step in detailing a level is ARCHITECTURE, and you can't do that without making some changes. Look at that massive wall dividing the starting area from the A-B route for example: if you just texture that, you have not detailed it.
If the shell of a level remains bland then all the textures and props in the world will not save you.
It is rare and specialized situations affecting only the most skilled players of only a few classes when 8 - 32 units difference changes a tactic. (demoman quickly popping around corners to throw stickies for example). Heck, even the overhangs in CP C and A-building can be mostly removed without affecting gameplay.
Still, I am curious, what if we added something like an overhang with support beams coming down off it that divides a path into two without truly adding new areas? Would this be a layout change? I would think not. Would adding a few soldier/demoman perches be a layout change? I would think not. Would changing the slope of the highly-graded clip brush be a layout change? I would think not. The majority of the changes people are asking about would not change the flow or balance of the map as a whole and would only make minor changes to individual firefights in some specialized circumstances.
The meaning of "layout" is not "shape of areas and routes" but rather "type and character of situations produced by the areas and routes."
Think back on your own maps and the way they evolved through alpha, beta, etc. You might, in alpha, have a building rooftop where an engy can build a sentry, and then in beta you might add a duct on top of it which would block/change exactly were sentries can be built, but it does not change that sentries can be built there.
Everytime you make a change you question, compile and run around the level and see if it FEELS different, if there is a major change in what you feel capable of DOING as each class, then that is a layout change.
You don't JUST want to texture and add models and sounds, the first step in detailing a level is ARCHITECTURE, and you can't do that without making some changes. Look at that massive wall dividing the starting area from the A-B route for example: if you just texture that, you have not detailed it.
If the shell of a level remains bland then all the textures and props in the world will not save you.
Last edited:
So I can put a flaming train?
- Oct 19, 2008
- 1,067
- 1,150
Yay XD
FissionMetroid101
L2: Junior Member
- Jan 27, 2010
- 65
- 118
I think by the end of the contest, there's going to be a payload version more played then the official CP one.
After looking at a couple of threads I felt compelled to rant about the subject of what is and what is not a layout change despite being out of town and on a phone, but it looks like Mr. Happy and zpqrei beat me to it.
If you're counting units your change is small enough to pass. Changing a doorway to fit a prop is a small change. Changing the dimensions of a room is a small change. Adding a prop in a gameplay heavy area is a small change. Adding a doorway or new path is major.
Basically, this contest is about being creative with what you are given. Like Happy said, you aren't going to impress anyone by slapping in some textures, props, and soundscapes. Do something new. Creative. Fancy.
Stop worrying about little nuances with the wording of the rules and MAP.
If you're counting units your change is small enough to pass. Changing a doorway to fit a prop is a small change. Changing the dimensions of a room is a small change. Adding a prop in a gameplay heavy area is a small change. Adding a doorway or new path is major.
Basically, this contest is about being creative with what you are given. Like Happy said, you aren't going to impress anyone by slapping in some textures, props, and soundscapes. Do something new. Creative. Fancy.
Stop worrying about little nuances with the wording of the rules and MAP.