- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
It's possible and too hectic. HUD hates it, too
TF2 megatask: making capture the flag popular
- Thread starter PHISH
- Start date
Has anyone requested a fix from valve to allow people to set the capture # win condition for their map without using a server command?
It seems like a pretty big need for CTF to have control over your map. Otherwise it forces you to balance for a low cap #, especially if using other round win conditions (i.e. alternating teams).
It seems like a pretty big need for CTF to have control over your map. Otherwise it forces you to balance for a low cap #, especially if using other round win conditions (i.e. alternating teams).
I have heard that some people have requested "entity requests"... where you can have an entity added to game. Mangy I think requested something for csf.
I'm assuming this is what all the "community requests" IO additions are.
I'm assuming this is what all the "community requests" IO additions are.
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I think this may be your problem. TF2 is so much a different game that it's almost not worth referencing TFC at all. Not only is TF2 generally slower because of class speeds (no more grenade jumping-bunny hopping heavies), but there are weapon and class mechanics specifically designed to slow and disrupt gameplay. So much of why CTF is different is due to changes in the classes and weapons and nothing to do with map mechanics, or core game mechanics like the reward for killing being significantly greater than capturing an objective (dominations and revenges vs 2 pts for flag capture down from 10 pts in TFC, etc).
The game is just not designed for traditional CTF, which is exactly why Valve dispensed with flags almost entirely in favour of control and capture point mechanics. This game was, after all, play tested through 9 versions over 7 years.
We hosted a comp CTF competition and the most successful/popular modes were invade. This was because competitive teams are usually small, with specific class make-ups. It was beneficial to bring the two teams to a single objective, a nuetral flag, similar in respects to TF2's most popular game mode payload. The switching of teams from attack and defence in turns was also similar to traditional comp 5CP gameplay. So everything that was good about the new CTF maps was emulating existing mechanics from other established TF2 gameplay/modes and not TFC.
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I agree the game is not designed for traditional CTF, so I'm going for a different game mode and a tailored map to introduce some elements I think are missing in a way that compliments how TF2 plays best traditionally. I've seen some of the prior attempts at this and I think there were some flaws, so I'll try my 'vision' and I guess we'll see the results in playtesting. I'm sure there will be things that crop up I didn't think of! Part of that is hearing your guys' takes on this, so that helps for other perspectives.
The ctf caps per round though is something that would really nice to be added into tf_gamerules, that would benefit all mappers in giving them a little more control over how their map plays.
The ctf caps per round though is something that would really nice to be added into tf_gamerules, that would benefit all mappers in giving them a little more control over how their map plays.
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but we are many who are finding great fun in a variation of CTF that works a bit like football.
Basically, we have a central neutral flag, that each team has to bring to the other teams base. It's incredibly simple and very fun.
The fact that there is only ONE flag forces the teams to rapidly alter their tactics from offense to defense, everytime they get/loose the "ball".
For me, it has the same breathtaking effect that soccer or other team-sports can have.
Basically, we have a central neutral flag, that each team has to bring to the other teams base. It's incredibly simple and very fun.
The fact that there is only ONE flag forces the teams to rapidly alter their tactics from offense to defense, everytime they get/loose the "ball".
For me, it has the same breathtaking effect that soccer or other team-sports can have.
The only real way a map author can improve upon the CTF stalemate/pace issue is in the design of spawn room positions and the amount of points rewarded per capture. These are the only elements/variables the level designer has available to him short of server plugins.
Everything else is handled Valve side including their consistant breaking of the alternative CTF modes. I really do think Invade mode is the answer to properly balanced TF2 CTF, especially for the competitive scene. But too few mappers are experienced enough in both CTF and mapping to make the system work.
But the only way to get direct improvements for the mode is to gather enough attention in a CTF revival movement, along with a community email, for Valve to see that CTF really needs some changes beyond their daft capture crits as almost eveything CTF related is hard coded into the engine. We were lucky enough to entity hack a capture blocking mechanic for our comp-CTF contest and even that required a number of custom assets to make it legible for new players, along with our A/D CTF HUD which was a direct community request. IE not something we could have done ourselves as map authors, it was implemented by Valve.
Everything else is handled Valve side including their consistant breaking of the alternative CTF modes. I really do think Invade mode is the answer to properly balanced TF2 CTF, especially for the competitive scene. But too few mappers are experienced enough in both CTF and mapping to make the system work.
But the only way to get direct improvements for the mode is to gather enough attention in a CTF revival movement, along with a community email, for Valve to see that CTF really needs some changes beyond their daft capture crits as almost eveything CTF related is hard coded into the engine. We were lucky enough to entity hack a capture blocking mechanic for our comp-CTF contest and even that required a number of custom assets to make it legible for new players, along with our A/D CTF HUD which was a direct community request. IE not something we could have done ourselves as map authors, it was implemented by Valve.
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Were those prior implemented requests just made through an email?
Not good with models, but it would be kinda cool if someone who IS could decompile one of the applicable models, and see if there are any additional parameters.
I really don't think that valve would hard-code a model restriction into the game... Would make no sense.
I really don't think that valve would hard-code a model restriction into the game... Would make no sense.
Part of me wishes Valve would just go back to the TFC method of using manual entity setups for gamemodes, rather than just slapping on an entity that says "This is a KOTH/Arena/CTF/5CP map; do whatcha gotta do" and barring any creativity. But that would break every single existing custom map in one fell swoop, including the ones that are no longer being worked on.
What they could do, though, is create a gamerules entity for CTF. Fortuitously, CTF currently doesn't use any such entity because symmetrical CTF with flags that respawn twice is the default, so adding one would let designers get more creative without breaking any existing maps.
What they could do, though, is create a gamerules entity for CTF. Fortuitously, CTF currently doesn't use any such entity because symmetrical CTF with flags that respawn twice is the default, so adding one would let designers get more creative without breaking any existing maps.
Because Valve
Dr Element: I decompiled the australium flag, there's nothing special in the .qc. I wouldn't be surprised if these models were hardcoded in because of some previous fuckupage that Valve did around the War! update.
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Henke