tactical sg placement

[grazr]

I can't remember who i was discussing this with in the steam chat the other night, but we were discussing pet hates of playing engineer. After talking about tf2 i just had to go play it. Someone mentioned people bunching together, or basketing all the sg's in on tasty spot. Not 10 minutes into a game when 2 more engineers join and..

Although it appears i only got 2 killing blows, me and a demo man had succesfully defended against several attacks and uber's. There was no call for this waste of space.

I suppose since i started this thread other people can add there opinions on nubbish engineer play. I just found it ironic having talked about engineers being gimps and then seeing this moments later.

 

[Shmitz]

Yeah, even though engineer is my favorite class, this is why I tend to play demoman or soldier a lot more these days. Even though I know I could probably do a better job than the four engineers already on my team, it still wouldn't excuse adding to the engy glut.

 

[MrAlBobo]

wow...I can't recall ever having that issue...where I go playing engie is more of a chore then anything else, and so few people do it

though if there happen to be a few engies I work to put my stuff in strange places, like on the 3rd round of dustbowl I frequently have a teleport just about beside the enemy spawn and they rarely notice it

but yeah...2 is about the most sentries you want to see there...and further apart

 

[Axii]

I was talking with you about that ^_^.

 

[ryodoan]

I play engineer almost exclusively, if there are too many engineers I will switch to demo-man or medic.

I have a litany of complaints against stupid engineers on my team, here is the brief list:

• Double Building SG's right on top of each other. I got a story about this actually...
  • Ok, so there is a Custom map server I like to play on, however sometimes there are some really crappy maps put on there. One I think is called "ctf_hallwayofdeath" or something like that. All it is is a long halway with the team spawns on either side. To protect the flag you need at least 2 SG's on either side of the flag. Generally, 1 SG will get uber-pyro'ed and the 2nd SG will live long enough to take out the uber. So this one time I am playing this map, we have 2 engineers (counting me) and I run out, start my build cycle during the setup phase. This 2nd engineer starts building right next to me. So I destroy my stuff, run over to the other side, finish building my SG. The round starts. He destroys his SG AFTER THE ROUND IS STARTED and starts building it next to mine again. Immediately an Uber pyro runs up, nukes both our SG's and steals the flag.
• Building SG's in locations that dont do any good, aka, on dustbowl building their SG at the back CP without even trying to defend the front CP.
• Stealing my Metal. This applies to everyone on my team. At the begining of a round, I have 60 seconds to get my SG built up as fast as possible. When your dumb ass was shooting useless rockets during the setup phase and then steals my metal, I get pissed.
  • Sub-note. During setup phase ALL SUPPLIES BELONG TO ME. You do not need any ammo, I need metal. Do. not. take. MY. supplies.

• Stealing my Metal #2. This one applies to teammate engineers. My process during the setup round is worked out pretty well.
  1. Build Dispensor.
  2. Grab Metal
  3. Build SG, hammer on SG until its built.
  4. Hammer on Dispensor until its built, but right before it dispenses...
  5. I go and grab more metal.
  6. When I come back the dispensor is chugging out metal and I can get my SG up to level 3 fairly quickly.
     • Right about Stage 5, a 2nd engineer will go "OOOOHHH free metal!! and hijack my dispensor and start stealing my metal that I need.
• Teammate Engineers that rather than helping each other build 1 level three, build 3 level 1's. I generally dont build a SG during some maps but just run around helping other engineers get their SG's built faster. I dont get as many points but it helps the team out a lot more.

 

[Snipergen]

Good demo's take this out! Honestly!
I would

 

[Géza!]

I love to play Engineer, but I rarely put my sentry on usual spots. Everyone expects sentries there.
But putting a hidden sentry in a small side hallway, where people usually retreat, or a rarely used corridor, (Like the upper entrance of the spiral corridor on 2fort.) and BAM! I can just leave the sentry alone, and help other engineers, sometimes repairing my sentry, and counting the killed dumb enemies.

Of course it only works when other Engineers build their sentries to the ususal spots.

 

[ryodoan]

Yeah, I joined a 24/7 2-fort server and had a LOT of fun with my sentry.

The trick I have found for maps like 2-fort is to move your sentry a lot. So after I kill one person I move the sentry to a new location, and when they get down there again, they are running towards where they think the sentry is and BAM.

 

[Géza!]

I also like to place my sentry to places where if an enemy enters the area, the sentry shoots him from the side/behind.

 

[Nineaxis]

I also like to place my sentry to places where if an enemy enters the area, the sentry shoots him from the side/behind.

My strategy too. I usually just walk around the map until I see a place that no one ever puts sentries but would be awesome for surprise.

Goldrush stage 1: coming out of the ditch, there is that ladder with the little space just wide enough for a sentry, walled on one side. Put a level three sentry there, and everyone who started pushing the cart was blown up from behind.

Surprise is key. And catching them from behind always works.

 

[Sgt Frag]

i've spawned as engi before, pounded on a couple sentries to help the regular engis get up quick, run out and shot enemies til I die then respawn as something else. This can help alot when you have the 3 lvl 1 sentry issues.

I was playing Mach4 last night and 4 engis all built above intel. Everyone else turtled. I got intel out on bridge 4 times but nobody would help grab it. I left. That's stupid engi work, at least put on sentry to cover stairs and one in lower intel room. 4 up top is a complete waste and they kept getting wiped by ubers comin up stairs.

 

[YM]

I was playing Mach4 last night and 4 engis all built above intel. Everyone else turtled. I got intel out on bridge 4 times but nobody would help grab it. I left. That's stupid engi work, at least put on sentry to cover stairs and one in lower intel room. 4 up top is a complete waste and they kept getting wiped by ubers comin up stairs.

Why I hate CTF^

 

[MrAlBobo]

heh...my 2 main building locations on 2fort is either in the opponents intel room or in that area below the opponents spawn, far more fun then just defending

 

[Hawk]

Now and then during the setup phase, if I'm a Pyro or something, I switch classes in front of an engineer so he can pick up my gun for metal. There's usually plenty of time to run back to the battlefront before the round starts.

 

[Géza!]

My strategy too. I usually just walk around the map until I see a place that no one ever puts sentries but would be awesome for surprise.

(...)
Surprise is key. And catching them from behind always works.

Yep, surprise is the deadliest weapon of sentries.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Why I hate CTF^

I like ctf, i like cp, I even like those damn pl ones a little. Really depends on the map, not the style or setting. A good map is a good map.
Usually that server has pretty good teams, occassionly you end up with that stuff though.

 

[ryodoan]

Why I hate CTF^

At least hate a game type because the game type sucks, not just because there are a couple bad players on one out of 400 servers.

If you join a dedicated CTF server you find people who actually know how to play on CTF maps and it is much, much more fun.

 

[Bonafide]

ctf is great if you dont join one of those instant spawn 2fort 24/7 servers . They are just a deathmatch.

 

[grazr]

Dominations and revenges get people hacked up into killing each other rather than going for the flag. Atleast on ctf where there is a constant, static killing ground.

Back in tfc there wasn't much reason for for a class other than engi to play defensive, unless you were a demoman intent on defending a hall/door. But even a demo man was needed up front for his powerful burst damage, mirv grenades and det packs. Heavy was always held back by his slow speed, he got hacked apart by other people trying to cross no-mans land. I remember some leagues and even pub servers banned fighting in no-mans land.

Your role and the scoring system was simple. Capture the flag, recieve 10 points. Kills and flag captures were indesdinguishable. Rewards were balanced for all classes. There was none of this double points for headshot/backstab etc.

My biggest gripe are against engineers who don't heal friendly sg's. The amount of times i was backstabbed, had my sg zapped, and watched from the floor as a friendly engi stands at the opposite end of the room watching my buildings slowly die.

EDIT: Infact i say they should put the capture area on 2fort back where it used to be, on the battlements. Having to travel deep into each others bases makes it a long journey for any class and there are no real reminders as to what you're doing. With so many rewards for killing people they just jump around on either side of the brigde.

 

[YM]

At least hate a game type because the game type sucks, not just because there are a couple bad players on one out of 400 servers.
If you join a dedicated CTF server you find people who actually know how to play on CTF maps and it is much, much more fun.

The reason I hate CTF is because you get engineers who just group together and make the whole map seem lame. There is a lack of motion which means you don't get people desperatly trying to take down the SGs as much.
And again, the lack of motion itself annoys me, you make an epic push, grab the intel and then what do you do? go back to your own base.. which is exactly the same as theirs.... then to add insult to injury, as soon as you've done that you've got to do it all over again, and again.
I find CTF is really dull because there is such an amazing lack of dynamics in the whole thing. the battle front barely changes, the maps are 90% of the time symetrical (symetrical here is code for dead fucking boring)
It stalemates far more than the other gametypes, and as they say in the comentary nodes "Ultimately a stalemate is a loss for everyone" and that's not fun, winning is fun, being beaten is fun, stalemating or reaching time out is not fun. (although suddendeath has it's moments)
CP is far better due to the dynamic battle front, it shifts as the game progresses and almost always it ends up in a win for one team.
Payload is even better because the battlefront shifts even more than in CP.

Its all about dynamics ultimately, CTF isn't dynamic, nothing changes from 5 minutes playing to 25 minutes playing and as a result it doesn't hold my intrest and makes me want to stop playing tf2.

(And it's far more than 1 in 400, more like 1 in 20 or even 1 in 10)