Spillway

[lana]

It was very well playing, but the final point was a little close to the spawn, and it seemed relatively unmarked.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

/me sighs

There are a TON of signs, especially around 2nd & Last. I purposely never added signs to middle because the goal of the design was to create the flow so that it would never need them in the first place. Hearing that it still needs signs this late in the process... ugh. I'm not opposed I guess, but mostly it's about the player understanding what to do. Follow signs with your team's color, go the opposite of the other team's signs, and follow white signs when they are on the enemy's side of the map. That's the tradition valve started with their maps.

As far as Final... that's going to be fixed with spawn times. It's hopefully not so close that you get spawn camping, but >_>.

Other things I remember that need to be fixed: The resupply cabinet at 2nd forward spawns needs to be moved back.

 

[lana]

The only signs I really think you need are at the final point. It's not very clearly marked that it's the control point from outside on the right.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

Ah, well that can be fixed. Which side do you mean as right, though? Defender's or attacker's view? There's the capture zone overlay and the capture point sign on the floodgate side, a capture point sign by the window, and a capture point sign over the back upstairs door.

Seriously if there's ANY little issues like that, bug me about them. Anything.

 

[absurdistof]

I think the health in the middle is fine, but there is little health under the second cap, and I always want there to be health in that little rock garden between mid and 2nd/4th. I also think that a more obvious healthpack would be good, so that it's visible from 2nd/4th cap. As for the chain, I think it might be overkill. Seeing as a small health vial heals 22.5% of your health (I believe..), 3 of them is roughly 74.5% of health which is too forgiving.

I don't really think the map is confusing, the layout just takes a bit getting used to. Like any other valve map, play 3 games and you'll know it.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

Hrm. Yeah I'm definitely putting a small health in the yard by the medium ammo there. I think a medium might be in order but honestly that would really add too much net health in that area. Too much health would be worse than not enough, and I don't particularly want to move any of the other healths. Right now the medium in cave and the medium at the ramp to 2nd are really balanced as far the options they offer; putting a small smack dab between them will basically have no effect on making either path more effective.

I REALLY appreciate you two having this conversation with me. Thanks for the layout comments absurdist. >:3



EDIT: I have a plan for mid!!!

In front of the forward spawn where the health pack is now, that area is getting reworked. I'm going to add a little plateau that one can crouch jump up on to, which breaks up the area and allows the attackers to fire on the point. Plus I'll move the small health up onto this plateau. To the side of this plateau, between the it and the forward spawn, there will be a little ramp up to the area behind the plateau. Then, along the side of the forward spawn, where those rocks are now, I'll add a ramp up from the flank mid entrance to above the plateau, which will give scouts an effective flank/drop down on this new spot.

If you can't visualize it, you'll see!

 

[absurdistof]

Sounds cool

As for the health, I think a medium in the yard would unbalance it a lot, but a small one would be nice because I always play scoot there and when I get lit up by a pyro I always run through the yard to the caves health pack, but five times out of ten I die :/

Idk, I guess since the yard to mid cp areas are a bottleneck it would be an escape health(so you can eat the splash from a demos nade), or an extinguishing health pack to save me from TMP.

Btdubs the mid idea sounds cool, maybe add a ramp on the exit side of the plateau/health shelf so its accessible to all classes running in to the middle, but less so to classes already in the middle.. idk.. but I want this to go beta dammit!

 

[Guardian]

/me sighs

There are a TON of signs, especially around 2nd & Last. I purposely never added signs to middle because the goal of the design was to create the flow so that it would never need them in the first place. Hearing that it still needs signs this late in the process... ugh. I'm not opposed I guess, but mostly it's about the player understanding what to do. Follow signs with your team's color, go the opposite of the other team's signs, and follow white signs when they are on the enemy's side of the map. That's the tradition valve started with their maps.

As far as Final... that's going to be fixed with spawn times. It's hopefully not so close that you get spawn camping, but >_>.

Other things I remember that need to be fixed: The resupply cabinet at 2nd forward spawns needs to be moved back.

You forgot the rules about signs!

Rules about signs in all maps:

1. There aren't enough signs

2. The signs are confusing

3. There are too many signs

4. The signs are hard to find

5. Some signs aren't needed

6. It's harder to find the signs then the location

7. The signs distract me from the fight

8. I hate signs


Hmmm did I forget any?

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

Testing bump...

I have all these ideas for a10, but so far I've begun by fixing the clipping on mid & adding a ramp from hole-area to in front of the window @ last.

One drastic idea I had... was to make the exit from the cave be one door instead of two. Right now there's the path to the stairway, and the path that leads up next to the point (on mid). I was thinking that I could instead make one door centered on that wall and have that as the fix to mid. The only problem is, that certainly doesn't fix the problem of not enough flanks. I'm planning to add that ramp, anyway, and so maybe this idea would or would not work as well with that strategy.

 

[Trotim]

This won't help you now if at all, but next time, maybe wait with the detailing a bit longer, since you seemed to have some problems changing the layout now.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

No, not really.

The little bit of detailing done so far didn't take much time at all, I wouldn't say that it has anything to do with the layout changes... I really just want to fine-tune this layout as much as possible.

 

[MrAlBobo]

I am personally opposed to having a one way door there, all that accomplishes is instantly letting everyone on the point know where you are...which will make that even worse as a flanking route <_<

Not going to lie...its actually not that bad of a flanking route as it is, several times I managed to sneak behind/ shoot an opening into the other team and get by...I still stand by my opinion that moving the exit a bit closer to the other teams side is by far the most effective thing to do.

And I still have no opinions on defending the last point as that still hasn't come up

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

So... I know this hasn't been updated recently, but that's because I'm making some rather HUGE changes. With the help of a fellow comp player/mapper (Sawks) we've been redesigning a large portion of the map to be cleaner and have better flow.

Some of the changes I can talk about include:
1: rotating last 90 degrees and flipping it, to balance both paths left and right and to shorten the walk time of the tunnel path.
2: On middle adding an entirely new flank route and lowering the walls to reduce the scale (skybox will still be VERY high though)

Those are the two major changes, but hopefully a10 will be perfect!

Pics coming soon. :3

 

[absurdistof]

So soon....

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

I've spent like two hours redesigning last and middle almost entirely, so chill out. I got my brain trust into a steam chat and we worked it out. :3

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1930120/DaPlan4.png

That's last. I'll do a final version of middle later.

 

[absurdistof]

Is that an open CP? <3 the idea! I'm very excited to see a10.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

>_>

<_<

 

[ScorpioUprising]

I like that. The boundary between the point and the surrounding area is much more precise and also keeps players on an even height, which compliments the rather larger area of the point.

 

[absurdistof]

Oh. My. God. I. Shit. My. Pants. I can't believe the middle CP is remodeled! I like the new look a lot, my one issue with it is that I think stairs will look unnatural in the desert canyon setting, I think a ramp would suffice.

I like how the separate height levels are very defined, but also both of them are very easily accessible. I also like how you don't have to run up to get on the same level as the CP, but you may run down to go below it. Looks awesome!

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

I know it's not much, especially for those of you used to seeing this map in full living color, but I've been working pretty feverishly alongside Socks and Nineaxis to redesign the map to fit my specs while increasing the competitive potential and cleaning it up for displacing. So far it's been a lot of work but Socks especially has done tons of brushwork and then I've gone through and added the touches. >:3

Here's some hammer shots. Yes, I know I forgot to put on shaded-polygons, gimme a break:

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1930120/a10tease.PNG

I hope to have a10 ready by this weekend! There is a light at the end of the tunnel!