Spillway
- Thread starter FreeLance_FoX
- Start date
MrAlBobo
L13: Stunning Member
- Feb 20, 2008
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see, teleport can be useful :O
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
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a9a released!
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=2644
- Raised the floor of the lower ground @ yard & under the hole, making the height advantage of defenders as well as the fall damage less severe.
- Reworked the flow around last, including moving the bridge to empty directly onto the CP, and streamlining the main path + improving the angles to favor attackers in that area.
- Angled the front portion of the roof @ last, plus added a new tower to that building to break up sightlines on the ramp path to the CP.
- Changed the initial spawn rooms to be located upstairs in the rear of the warehouse, with doors left & right.
- Increased the thickness of ceiling @ 2nd/4th in order to decrease the perceived size of the area.
- Raise the light levels @ 2nd/4th.
- Moved the sheet metal @ 2nd/4th to cover the sightline from tunnel to the other side of the CP, effectively making that approach a flank for the defense, decreasing spam, & adding cover on the CP.
- Additional detail everywhere, including an example of the above-cliff detailing @ last.
<3 FoX
EDIT: oh and yeah a9a fixes all those things, Penguin :3
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=2644
- Raised the floor of the lower ground @ yard & under the hole, making the height advantage of defenders as well as the fall damage less severe.
- Reworked the flow around last, including moving the bridge to empty directly onto the CP, and streamlining the main path + improving the angles to favor attackers in that area.
- Angled the front portion of the roof @ last, plus added a new tower to that building to break up sightlines on the ramp path to the CP.
- Changed the initial spawn rooms to be located upstairs in the rear of the warehouse, with doors left & right.
- Increased the thickness of ceiling @ 2nd/4th in order to decrease the perceived size of the area.
- Raise the light levels @ 2nd/4th.
- Moved the sheet metal @ 2nd/4th to cover the sightline from tunnel to the other side of the CP, effectively making that approach a flank for the defense, decreasing spam, & adding cover on the CP.
- Additional detail everywhere, including an example of the above-cliff detailing @ last.
<3 FoX
EDIT: oh and yeah a9a fixes all those things, Penguin :3
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- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
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Sgt.Sausage
L420: High Member
- Dec 5, 2008
- 420
- 103
It is very much improved, i hope it gets to the point were it is a great 5cp maybe even competitive.
Next time i play a9 i will say more, upcoming in any gamedays or nightly tests?
Next time i play a9 i will say more, upcoming in any gamedays or nightly tests?
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
I missed Saturday's gameday, I'm going to do my best to get it in Sunday's. I'll host some spontaneous testing probably tomorrow and I'll try and post in the chatroom when I get a 6v6 or other form of non-tf2m testing. 
Anyone have feedback yet?
Anyone have feedback yet?
Sgt.Sausage
L420: High Member
- Dec 5, 2008
- 420
- 103
Trotim
aa
- Jul 14, 2009
- 1,195
- 1,045
Oh wow, can't believe I never replied here, I could swear I wanted to multiple times before...
So yes, the no-entry signs on the spawnroom doors aren't scaled right. =P
I think the map also suffers a bit from low contrast, that is, the 2nd and 4th points aren't too distinguishable. I know there's not much detailing yet, but maybe you could try and add some more color to these CPs to make it obvious from a distance whose CP it actually is.
Moreover, the center CP might actually make an okay center of a KOTH version.
So yes, the no-entry signs on the spawnroom doors aren't scaled right. =P
I think the map also suffers a bit from low contrast, that is, the 2nd and 4th points aren't too distinguishable. I know there's not much detailing yet, but maybe you could try and add some more color to these CPs to make it obvious from a distance whose CP it actually is.
Moreover, the center CP might actually make an okay center of a KOTH version.
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
Alright, so as much as I'd like to say this will be the last alpha, it won't! >:(
There are still a handful of large issues to be fixed. Here's my proposed changelist for a10, which I am REALLY hoping will be the last Alpha. If you have ANY gameplay concerns, no matter how small or huge, say them now. If you STILL think it's too large, give me a heads up. I don't want to have to rip apart displacements in rc4, guys.
1: Middle is still lacking in effective flanking routes. In order to fix, something needs to be done to the farthest cave routes that put you out on the side of the points. The solution is that I'm planning to raise that exit up and add either a bridge or a raised hill to let players get directly onto the point that way. Then I'll add some sort of pass under that spot to allow Scouts/etc behind enemy lines.
2: Last is playing much nicer but the lower route is still lacking. It's either too effective, when teams just ignore it entirely and get flanked, or not effective at all, when neither team uses it. To solve this issue. I'm going to rework the staircase up from the hole area so that it empties much closer to the point. That route is supposed to be the defense's best way to attack 2nd from last.
3: The stairwell room is not a safe offensive position, you're always vulnerable through the lower one way door when attacking 2nd and you're vulnerable to spam. To fix, I'm going to move the one way door from the lower area and put it up top. It will go from the wall where that rock is now to a new ledge (or something) that gives the offense a place to defend.
4: The health distribution seems to be out of whack. Right now there's 3 healths down low on the way to middle and 3 on all the sides of 2nd, but that leaves holes in the yard and on the 2nd CP. Both of those areas need to have access to some health... so I'll think of something to do there.
If anyone wants to suggest big changes, do it now. I'm not going to listen to you later. >_0
-FoX
There are still a handful of large issues to be fixed. Here's my proposed changelist for a10, which I am REALLY hoping will be the last Alpha. If you have ANY gameplay concerns, no matter how small or huge, say them now. If you STILL think it's too large, give me a heads up. I don't want to have to rip apart displacements in rc4, guys.
1: Middle is still lacking in effective flanking routes. In order to fix, something needs to be done to the farthest cave routes that put you out on the side of the points. The solution is that I'm planning to raise that exit up and add either a bridge or a raised hill to let players get directly onto the point that way. Then I'll add some sort of pass under that spot to allow Scouts/etc behind enemy lines.
2: Last is playing much nicer but the lower route is still lacking. It's either too effective, when teams just ignore it entirely and get flanked, or not effective at all, when neither team uses it. To solve this issue. I'm going to rework the staircase up from the hole area so that it empties much closer to the point. That route is supposed to be the defense's best way to attack 2nd from last.
3: The stairwell room is not a safe offensive position, you're always vulnerable through the lower one way door when attacking 2nd and you're vulnerable to spam. To fix, I'm going to move the one way door from the lower area and put it up top. It will go from the wall where that rock is now to a new ledge (or something) that gives the offense a place to defend.
4: The health distribution seems to be out of whack. Right now there's 3 healths down low on the way to middle and 3 on all the sides of 2nd, but that leaves holes in the yard and on the 2nd CP. Both of those areas need to have access to some health... so I'll think of something to do there.
If anyone wants to suggest big changes, do it now. I'm not going to listen to you later. >_0
-FoX
MrAlBobo
L13: Stunning Member
- Feb 20, 2008
- 1,059
- 219
I told you way back on alpha 2 that the middle lacked flanking routes <_<
What I told you then was to just have the paths extend slightly past the middle point...
even did a little diagram back then http://www.customgamers.org/pics/cp_spillway_a20001.jpg
As for the lower path...while attacking its honestly completely useless, your going uphill a long distance, on a wide highly visible path, all it takes is one person walking by to notice you. If you want the attacking team to use it, Id advise a way to turn onto the path closer to the point, so your not vulnerable for as long.
Then I can honestly say that I can't recall ever defending this point since the last update.
absurdistof
aa
- Aug 10, 2009
- 1,240
- 399
The big staircase room to the 2/4th cap(s)?
I like those.. Sure they're a risk from pyros like the former TMP, and some spam, but I found that the route served fine for scouts and other classes, it was just a matter of timing. Also, there were other routes to that cap that provided plenty of an angle.
I like those.. Sure they're a risk from pyros like the former TMP, and some spam, but I found that the route served fine for scouts and other classes, it was just a matter of timing. Also, there were other routes to that cap that provided plenty of an angle.
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
Planned rework of the area around the hole, stairwell, & tunnel:
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absurdistof
aa
- Aug 10, 2009
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Your depiction is ambiguous :/
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
What?
>_>
You're looking at the junction of the stairwell from the defense perspective, overhead. Mid is up, 2nd is left, last is down. The heights are ambiguous yes, but basically: Tunnel now connects to stairwell, stairwell has another exit to 2nd, hole connects to tunnel. There's no one way door, no way to go from hole directly to stairwell. It simplifies the whole area and gives the offense a place to defense while attacking 2nd.
>_>
You're looking at the junction of the stairwell from the defense perspective, overhead. Mid is up, 2nd is left, last is down. The heights are ambiguous yes, but basically: Tunnel now connects to stairwell, stairwell has another exit to 2nd, hole connects to tunnel. There's no one way door, no way to go from hole directly to stairwell. It simplifies the whole area and gives the offense a place to defense while attacking 2nd.
absurdistof
aa
- Aug 10, 2009
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- Sep 6, 2008
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Sooo... testing today seems to show that the spawn times need a fix. Seriously.
Here's what I think I gleaned from that test, but remind me if I'm wrong:
1: Overall spawn times could stand to be raised, but I propose that instead the spawn-times after capturing middle rise by about 5 seconds for the defending team. Additionally, the offensive spawn times should also go up by about 2 seconds.
2: On last, the spawn times for defenders could be raised by 2 seconds from their current place.
Now let's see if I can get those changes done correctly in hammer >_>
Here's what I think I gleaned from that test, but remind me if I'm wrong:
1: Overall spawn times could stand to be raised, but I propose that instead the spawn-times after capturing middle rise by about 5 seconds for the defending team. Additionally, the offensive spawn times should also go up by about 2 seconds.
2: On last, the spawn times for defenders could be raised by 2 seconds from their current place.
Now let's see if I can get those changes done correctly in hammer >_>
absurdistof
aa
- Aug 10, 2009
- 1,240
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I think its something like setwavetime for the spawn times.
Just a very quick random idea for the middle: maybe add a 1 way flank route on each side (somehow)? It could be like furnace where the drop down prevents anyone from getting back aside from FaN scouts, demos and soldiers..
Just a very quick random idea for the middle: maybe add a 1 way flank route on each side (somehow)? It could be like furnace where the drop down prevents anyone from getting back aside from FaN scouts, demos and soldiers..
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
Anyone else have any feedback?
I've been thinking about the health distribution and how to fix it so it seems more... available. What I came up with was that along with the change to stairwell area, which will effectively combine three health packs into one, I can add more health else where. Mid already has quite a lot of health and so I think it would be best to avoid too much more health there, so I'm thinking that I'll add a small health pack next to the ammo pack in the yard, and make the small health pack at last (by the window) a medium.
I also still need ideas on how to integrate the lower area more. Specifically, I need some sort of geometry change to that area. In the next version you'll no longer be able to go from hole to stairwell like you can now through the one way door, so I'm thinking that maybe... a lower entrance to last would make it useful? Instead of the wall along the cliff in front of the window, what about a stair case that climbs up and can access either the left bridge or the right ramps?
I've been thinking about the health distribution and how to fix it so it seems more... available. What I came up with was that along with the change to stairwell area, which will effectively combine three health packs into one, I can add more health else where. Mid already has quite a lot of health and so I think it would be best to avoid too much more health there, so I'm thinking that I'll add a small health pack next to the ammo pack in the yard, and make the small health pack at last (by the window) a medium.
I also still need ideas on how to integrate the lower area more. Specifically, I need some sort of geometry change to that area. In the next version you'll no longer be able to go from hole to stairwell like you can now through the one way door, so I'm thinking that maybe... a lower entrance to last would make it useful? Instead of the wall along the cliff in front of the window, what about a stair case that climbs up and can access either the left bridge or the right ramps?