Spillway

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
cp_spillway_a10

DOWNLOAD - http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=2827

A linear five-CP push map set in the cascading valley between two hydroelectric dams... and it's come a LONG way since a2 was released a couple months ago!

With the help of my new co-author Sawks, in this version I've totally overhauled the map. While the layout is similar all around, it's been rebuilt from scratch with new, cleaner brushwork and a handful of MAJOR changes to the layout intended to perfect the flow. The middle CP has been redesigned, the 2nd is brand new, and the last looks nothing like it used to!

I hope you all find these changes for the better. Do be forewarned, though, that since this overhaul I've also put the map back into dev textures. Not only was it something I should have started with, but it's going to help with displacing and detailing later.

I owe many thanks to Sawks, Nineaxis, and all my mapping brain trust for their help!

I'm looking for all feedback, both competitive and casual, so please check out my topic: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?ltr=S&t=7535

-FoX
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
Hey guys... so I'm planning more changes. Obviously they won't be quite as major as a9a to a10, but I'm really hoping to get the map worked out. I've heard a lot of comments that a10 has played about x100 better (even though I know a lot of you dislike it from a design standpoint, admittedly it is much simpler).

As far as what to do in a11, the problems right now is the navigation and the distances. It feels far too large around the yard and mid, especially with the open space on mid, but very short and tunnely at last and in the tunnels by mid. Here's my own ideas, and I'd love some feedback.
1: Rework mid. Instead of two doors into the side tunnel, make it a single door centered between the two current ones and raised up a bit. Widen the tunnel exits.
2: Remove the ramp up to the walkway from mid and replace it with a new construct, a high walkway that goes from that crevice where it passes through right up to the CP. The walkway will be supported by large columns that sit where the slanted corners of mid currently are.
3: Add the hills back in to mid in a big way, with large spread out sloping hills that allow access from all sides, while also reducing the area of the CP itself.
4: Close up all the unnecessarily long angles at mid, yard, and 2nd (easier said than done).
5: Fix 2nd by allowing more combat to take place moving on and off of the CP. Add a slope where the hard ledge on the right of the CP is now, and replace the ramp leading to the battlements with a new ramp that leads from the angled corner of the CP, where the half wall is, to the top level.
6: Replace the current facade of the battlement buildings at 2nd, extend the buildings out towards 2nd by putting a roof over the entrance from the lower section, etc. Rework the flow of that area.
7: Most of last will be within a large, badlands-esque base that encompasses three height levels. The lower entrance will flank the CP and the right entrance, that currently leads to the bridge, will go upstairs. The left path will be the main path still and will lead directly to the point via a small outdoor yard and either a Well-door or corner. The defender's spawns will be moved back.
8: Depending on the change in distances, spawn times will be fixed.

I need some feedback! :3 Thanks!
 

Jack Riguel

L10: Glamorous Member
Jul 19, 2009
721
254
ooo. Been a while since I last checked up on this map. Just browsing through the screenshots and I really like what you did with the final point. Also mid looks like it's going to be a lot nicer, however I still think it seems a bit to open. Only testing will show... looks like I'll be waiting for a11 though. :,(
 

Penguin

Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome
aa
May 21, 2009
2,039
1,484
I'm skeptical about the final point.
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
Heh in what way Penguin? You liked it better before or you think it needs a new design entirely?
 
Apr 19, 2009
4,460
1,722
It also lacks an "epic" feel to it. For example take Well and Freight, they both have rockets or some kind of big thing at the end. It helps the player feel like they have accomplished something more then just take a another control point.
 

lana

Currently On: ?????
aa
Sep 28, 2009
3,075
2,778
I for one am looking forward to a new final. It's way too small for any fun combat.
 

Jack Riguel

L10: Glamorous Member
Jul 19, 2009
721
254
It also lacks an "epic" feel to it. For example take Well and Freight, they both have rockets or some kind of big thing at the end. It helps the player feel like they have accomplished something more then just take a another control point.

While I agree I'm going to pull the "alpha" card in Fox's favour and say that I don't really expect that tremendous of a final point until beta. For now I just wanna see how it plays.
 

lana

Currently On: ?????
aa
Sep 28, 2009
3,075
2,778
I think the main areas are prone to spam. I've been able to decimate as a demoman numerous times, and I'm a terrible demoman.
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
I'm hoping that by emphasizing the areas that are currently underused, the walkway and tunnels at mid and the side paths to last, that the map will improve in gameplay to become less spammy. Also I want to make the 2nd CP a bit more fun than it is right now, and so any thoughts on how to spice it up would be appreciated.

I've totally realized how unepic last felt all along, but yes I've sorta been holding out and waiting until detailing to reach that. I'm hoping that some radically different geometry will change all that, though.
 

lana

Currently On: ?????
aa
Sep 28, 2009
3,075
2,778
Try to avoid using spam as an incentive.
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
She ain't dead yet.



Contrary to popular belief, Spillway is quite not dead. That's not to say it is not undead, but that I have become addicted to Borderlands.

Also, I've been waiting and watching as TWL has played my map pre-season, and painstakingly tracking down every team that has played it and hounding them for demos and feedback. :E

a11mid.PNG


That's all I've got for now. I'm fairly confident that this layout of mid will make it to a11, as I've probably done the damn thing about a million times now. Still to be done: 2nd, Last. Ugh.
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
Wow I changed my mind again. I'm doing drastic things, but I'm pretty positive this will be more fun. I couldn't get a rock to fit the footprint I really need.

a11mid2.PNG


This should be what it ends up looking like with the exception of displacing the sides of the hills to make them less steep. ;_;
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
Testing bump! We play a whole round of an experimental version, a11x, yesterday on tf2m's EU server. It was pretty fun and I think it went pretty well, despite me saying "ALREADY FIXED" to every issue. :p

I'm planning to have a11 out tonight, but who knows. o_O

-FoX
 

Barncow

L1: Registered
Aug 11, 2009
6
5
Seemed pretty good. Just posting my comments here so you remember.

Last point has 4 tiny entrances next to each other. good demoman plus soldiers can probably lock it down pretty easily.

Careful with resupply lockers, seemed kind of close to entrance of spawn.

I would need to play it in 6v6 to give some real good feedback on how it plays.
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
I uploaded a11 which is, er, borked. Just a minor flaw, but I'll be putting a11a out tomorrow morning for mass consumption. :3
 

MrAlBobo

L13: Stunning Member
Feb 20, 2008
1,059
219
If only Fox could release a map with working forward spawns......

indeed, you need to feel sorry for the poor commoners without teleporting powers <_<

and I said this in game but...the massive sniper lines have appeared again...I can just barely see peoples heads behind the "cover" referring to the...bulge? in the center of your last pic in the distance. Raising it maybe 8 units should fix that.