CP Snowbase b20

[Idolon]

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Snowbase is a two stage 2CP A/D with a coastal theme with heavy spytech. Features a non-conventional but relatively easy to learn layout.

Map by Idolon
Original concept and inspiration by Yrrzy
Custom assets by Seba, Yrrzy, Ida
Delivery van model - evil knevil, NassimO
Forklift model - Rexy

This map was developed as two separate maps and combined to make the final multi-stage map. This thread traces the development of the second stage. The first stage can be found here: Snowcave.

 

[Idolon]

a1 test notes:

-blue spawned in fwd spawn sometimes. fix this
-not sure how difficult B is yet because we only played on it once? want to get a better read on it before making any changes. however i have a hunch that red is getting onto the high ground too easily (especially since jumpers can jump there quickly from within B really safely) sooooo not sure what to do about that. might move stairs to upper area somewhere else for red (into the main choke?) will probably also make red's spawn time longer.
-A seems to cap really quickly. compare with other cap times.
-B also maybe?? again, not sure.
-the inner flank for A is just too good for red. that high ground is powerful, which it should be, but its also the fastest route for red. taking that area out as blue doesn't earn you much because red will just take it over again quickly. will probably block this route out, give another way up into it (maybe from bottom flank?) and make the ammo pack there a full instead of medium. encourage a nest but make it difficult to retake when blue pushes red out of there.
-people seemed confused by layout, which i expected. the overall shape of the map is unusual. however i think part of this is also because the interiors of A->B get kind of monotonous and there's no clear indication you're going the right way. add some arrows to reassure players that they aren't lost. the artpass will help with this later on.
-make the main route into B more obvious for red. currently its lit as much as everything else and it seems like people missed it and went for the flank opposite of the spawn (which is a much more obvious position for a main entrance). also erk suggested changing the orientation of the entrance, which may help with making it appear more like a flank.

 

[Idolon]

a2

-interior route from A towards spawn now goes from A to basement. added medium health and ammo
-changed medium ammo on interior high ground overlooking blue spawn to full ammo
-altered B flank route to look more like a flank, added medium health and small ammo
-modified some areas to give slightly better flanking opportunities when attacking last
-added small health by full ammo on B
-moved pickups on upper B route closer to blue
-added cover to shack near blue spawn to make it more useful for attackers. removed small ammo

-changed A capture time from 12 (24) seconds to 16 (32)
-changed B capture time from 7 (14) seconds to 10 (20)
-changed red spawn time while defending B from 7 (14) seconds to 8 (16)

-fixed issue where engineer could build in blue spawn
-fixed blue spawning in wrong spawn room, probably
-brightened parts of the map
-added some arrows to better lead red players towards B
-removed pink room

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Asd417]

Elements in the layout reminds me of gorge like the highground platform in the connector between A and B which is connected to B highground, but used in a unique way.

 

[Idolon]

Elements in the layout reminds me of gorge like the highground platform in the connector between A and B which is connected to B highground, but used in a unique way.

I was definitely inspired by Gorge as I made the final point/lobby. It's a great map.

 

[TheMightyGerbil]

Tried cp_snowbase_a2 I'm sorry to say I don't think you fixed blue spawning in the wrong room or something. After the first cap blue was stuck in spawn with a door that would not open. Didn't really get enough time on the map for any other feedback because of that. Hope you find those persnickety bugs though .

 

[Idolon]

Tried cp_snowbase_a2 I'm sorry to say I don't think you fixed blue spawning in the wrong room or something. After the first cap blue was stuck in spawn with a door that would not open. Didn't really get enough time on the map for any other feedback because of that. Hope you find those persnickety bugs though .

Sounds like it's at least an improvement over the last version, where people would spawn in the forward spawn before A was capped. I'll try to fix this ASAP.

EDIT: I just tested this myself and it seems to work fine... I don't know why it didn't work for you. I'll just run this version in the next test and cross my fingers nothing breaks.

 

[Idolon]

a2 test notes:

-despite my best efforts, blue still spawns in the forward spawn randomly. great!
-removing the interior route from A towards blue spawn definitely helped make the point more fun. however, it is still kinda difficult to establish a forward hold... blue might want a route that gets them high that also isn't the building, since that's basically just a sniper spot.
-what if the main route to A had a shutter?? might encourage people to fold forward more, on both teams. but also shutters are bad i guess
-might move blue spawn forward so they can more easily push into the outdoors area proper
-new basement functioned a lot better. the route that leads directly to the point could use some working to be more effective to push in from.
-people still get a bit lost when leaving red spawn for the first time. the flank route is weird but I'm not sure what to do with it yet. there's not a lot that can be done with it considering how tightly packed the layout is at the moment.
-chin hates the consoles. i think i do too. cover is fine, cover that's annoying to navigate around isn't.
-the way you can jump from red spawn to the upper area (and vice versa) works basically as intended... but might just not be a good idea. the upper area might want to be more covered.
-spies complain about this map a lot. need to address this somehow, but not entirely sure how. will hopefully shake itself out as the map improves overall. likely going to rescale/shift geo for attacking A that makes it a bit more open/approachable.

a3 preview:

-removed half of consoles on final to make the area more open
-adjusted stairs opposite of final spawn to make the small flank to final more covered and hopefully more useful
-changed small health at final to medium

 

[Idolon]

a3

-adjusted dimensions and cover around blue spawn -> A for sightlines and general openness
-added more props to ramp onto shed so its harder to walk off into death
-added awning over basement entrance to draw more attention to it
-adjusted stairs on side of final opposite red spawn to provide cover to blue team as they enter the room
-adjusted how upper route enters final point room to offer blue more opportunities to attack and to make pushing back out easier for red
-expanded "pyramid room" by 128 units
-moved consoles on that side of final to the new piece of cover, opening up the point to be more comfortable to walk around on
-changed small health at final to medium
-small flank on final point is locked until A is capped to reduce confusion for new red players navigating to A
-boosted ambient lighting from sun

EDIT: also pretty sure i fixed the fwd spawn bug

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Idolon]

a4

-added medium health/ammo to blue side high ground by final
-added cover to red side high ground by final
-another attempt at fixing fwd spawns. im pretty sure i got it this time

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Idolon]

a5

-added shutters to main blue -> A route, enlarged by 128 units
-changed full ammo on A to medium, added full ammo further back to make sentry construction more viable
-reworked interior/basement routing to be hopefully more intuitive

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Idolon]

a5 test notes (a4 was never tested):

-probably the most fun the map has been so far. basement felt more intuitive, shutters made it a lot more possible for blue to push the first part of A, and the forward spawn worked as intended for the first time.
-basement can be hard to find for blue. i forgot it existed for a while. i want to add a dropdown into it from up top, but there's just not any room for it at the moment. might just leave it as and rely on players to be smart.
-new position of the basement->under helipad door might make under the helipad less useful of a place to defend from? need to watch demo/play more to decide.
-A might be too hard at the moment? might just tweak red spawn time a bit because atm its only 5 (10) seconds, which is a bit short for a/d.
-could use more cover overall in front of blue spawn? red doesn't like holding forward.
-blue team doesn't seem to notice the stairs going up when attacking B. they can be kinda easy to miss, though im not sure they can be made more obvious without just repositioning them. will experiment with this.

 

[Idolon]

a6

-changed health on inner high ground by blue spawn from medium to full
-part of railing on roof for blue fwd spawn opens to make exiting blue spawn more intuitive
-removed aircon unit from small shed because it looked ridiculous
-added various bits of cover in front of blue spawn to make holding forward more appealing to red
-enlarged dirt path to basement, added props to make it more appealing/obvious
-reconfigured stairwell to upper area when attacking B to make it more obvious to both teams. harder to access for blue, but should see more use overall
-added doorway to make small flank to final more obvious for blue
-added more arrows to aid with general navigation

-red respawn time for defending B from 5 (10) to 7 (14) seconds
-A capture time from 16 (32) to 24 (48)

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Idolon]

a6 test notes:

-wood fences in front of blue spawn seemed to help flesh out the space a bit but, as feared by myself and noted by ibex, feel out of place. find a way to replace these with something that seems more relevant to the area?? (metal fences maybe...) or find another way to achieve similar things in a more believable manner, like altering the terrain.
-people are still getting lost when coming out of blue fwd spawn. the big sign wasn't enough.
-the last point has a dynamic where blue players keep coming in a continuous stream but have a hard time pushing into the final room. it's kinda similar to gorge's dynamic but with less push and pull it seems. making it harder for red to access the balcony (prop jump route or even just nothing at all) while making blue's spawn timer a tad longer might help.
-spies have a hard time accessing final. the far flank seems built just for this but its simply not large enough for spies to slip by... if making the balcony less accessible for red doesn't help, something really needs to be done about this. not sure what.
-people are still complaining about red textures in blue spawn. be sure to keep this in the final artpass. it's very important!
-people are either ignoring/missing the upper route going into B or they just don't find it very useful. the stairs change helps with flow (lots more people from red defending A from up high) but it might still be hidden to blue.

 

[ibex]

heyo, just to clarify I meant these fences. I get that the darker blue one is blocking a nice sightline, but it only leaves 128u(?) to walk through. might make it easier for some snipers to predict ppl

I don't really mind the wood fences towards the cliff, but this one(below) does seem out of place.

 

[Idolon]

heyo, just to clarify I meant these fences. I get that the darker blue one is blocking a nice sightline, but it only leaves 128u(?) to walk through. might make it easier for some snipers to predict ppl

I don't really mind the wood fences towards the cliff, but this one(below) does seem out of place.

Thanks for the clarification! I'll investigate the metal fences a bit more closely, they were a bit of a last-minute addition that I haven't revised. The wood fence you've highlighted is meant to force snipers a bit further into the battle if they want to get a pretty good sightline onto red's high ground, so I might get that effect by lowering the ground in the back and ditching the fence.

 

[Idolon]

Skipped a7 (never made a post) and a8 (never tested). a9 is coming after I make this post.

a7

-altered terrain in front of blue spawn to replace functionality of a wood fence that is no longer present
-replaced stairs up to balcony for red at final with prop pile
-moved B lobby stairs out a bit to maybe be more noticeable??
-added window to let players approaching through B flank see people hiding in bushes above
-minor clipping updates
-made some fake windows into real windows
-fixed issue where blue could build in spawn

-blue respawn from 2 (4) seconds to 3 (6)
-A cap time from 24 (48) seconds to 20 (40)



a8

-opened up a hole in the A lobby that might make everything terrible?? but will get more people to use the underground route, probably
-added awnings over shutter doors, enabling a jump route for blue onto the blue fwd spawn roof. also usable by red i guess, but its on blue's side
-moved pickups in B lobby to other side of depressed area
-moved pickups in upper B lobby to other side, changed medium ammo to small
-added medium health to pyramid room, middle of bridge
-moved pickups by server in pyramid room to other side of servers

 

[Idolon]

a9

-reworked A lobby entirely to better allow fighting within it and better rotation for both teams. it is bigger now
-A lobby reworks consequently resized B lobby, though there are no real layout changes to speak of
-added wall to B by far (window-side) balcony, allowing blue to contest it more easily. also directs red players out of B room better
-adjusted pretty much all pickups at B
-added arrow to guide red players to A more easily

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[WhoWee!]

How do you spit out updates so quickly? Do you rework small bits and update it, or do you just pull a Jungle Inferno and pack a bunch of stuff into one update?

 

[Idolon]

How do you spit out updates so quickly? Do you rework small bits and update it, or do you just pull a Jungle Inferno and pack a bunch of stuff into one update?

I tend to do a lot of updates with easy small changes and do larger updates more sparingly. This allows me to update the map on a quick schedule while also allowing myself multiple playtests to diagnose more significant issues. Constantly improving the map keeps players happy, and I get a larger sample size of matches for making bigger decisions.

This also depends on how good the first version of a map is. Sometimes I immediately know why the core design behind something is bad, and it isn't worth going forward until that major issue is fixed. This tends to go away as you get better at design, but it can still happen.

I also tend to already have an idea of what changes I will be making in the future depending on how the map plays and what feedback I get. If I correctly predict a problem with the map, then it isn't a surprise, and I've already thought about how I will fix it. A lot of my changes are things I was thinking I might need to do already.

Lastly, there's just good ol' work ethic. I'm faster at mapping than I used to be. I'm better at getting something in the editor without second and triple-guessing it than I used to be.