Should we get an IRC or Shoutbox?

[grazr]

Pretty much what Aly said.

Whilst weighing either social network against the other doesn't really bring any significant pro's and cons there's still the issue of splitting resources. Can i be arsed to tab between steamchat and irc? No. Steamchat has atleast 6 people in it these days, usaully 25. Steamchat allows for community announcements, and you can get into the server just by clicking the "click here to join game" chat spam. I don't even have to minimize to click a shortcut, then search through my favourites for the server, where it is usually missing due to my server list filters. It's just easy is what i'm saying.

We have over 1,100 members that all get announcements when we launch gameday and impromptu's so it's kinda moot when people promote using it to fill the server with people from other communities. Most are already aware that we are here, we've been plugged on the TF2 blog which pretty much insured that. That's not to say that we should ignore other communities, but we're ultimately providing a service for ourselves here and promoting our material such as maps and models usually comes down to the individuals will to visit other forum based communities. Want a pug? TF2lobby. Want impromptu? Steamchat.

Did TF2maps need irc in the past? No. Does it need it now? While it might not hurt to have one now, since we have quite obviously grown significantly over the years, i don't really think it does still. I'm not sure what it would actually bring us that it doesn't already take away by splitting our live chat. I can't help but feel that the only people in there will be TF2m admins and our local comp players who already own an irc client and use it for other communities.

Bringing ourselves to the irc crowd still doesn't really give an incentive for people to regularly check it/us out beyond the fact that it's there. We're focused around the steam community and it's right on our doorstep. I've always thought irc was like the backdoor to a community.

 

[Ida]

irc is a necessity for just about any community. at least you guys can break out of the 20 man gangbang that is the steam chatroom and meet the rest of the active tf2 community.

I have no need to meet the rest of the community and, in the process, split up our own. We have a great one right here.

 

[Sel]

A little bit of an unrealistic trend in thoughts I'm seeing here, is that those wanting a shoutbox are assuming it would be like the 2f2f one, acting as a hub of the community, by acting as a place to chat, watch livestreams together, and tell whose on the servers.

Right now that would be a lot of effort for someone to implement into this forum, and the steam chatroom already serves as an even better way of keeping everyone informed as to who is doing what.

IRC on the other hand is effectively the same thing that we have here now, just without any of the game/tool info being delivered. So really, what would the point of that be, aside from dodging downtime issues?

how about for the people who only know IRC as "My desire to get fucked in the ass"

 

[Ravidge]

IRC is flexible.

You can easily connect to it without having steam installed. (good for public computers and similar, in school or whatever).
You can have bots that keep track of servers, notify on events, play games with (trivia!) and more.
Using a IRC client, such as mIRC you can customize with plugins like nnscript. Basically you can edit anything to look the way you want.
Chat in several chatrooms at once, on multiple server networks even.

Took a screenshot: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/SS-2010.03.23-16.55.04.png
(it's pretty huge so I linked it)
Notice that all the things I listed above are shown in there.

nnscript supports games even, so I configured it to include an option to launch tf2 if I doubleclick an IP# (like those shown in the mIRC window). Launches and connects without a hitch!

IRC has been developed for years, it has all the standard features you need in a chat, just to name one thing: chatlogs. I'm not claiming that logs is the best thing ever and it's a must, just pointing out that it's a well-tested protocol, it has seen updates since quake1 days, it really does work and has features that I (and many) expect from chats these days.

The argument that "get another chat application and tab between them" is annoying is kinda moot in my book, since for many people IRC is the standard way to chat, and in their eyes the steamchat is the troublemaker, being in a special place. Requiring a special application to reach.

I don't see any negative aspects of putting a little applet(or similar) on tf2maps.net website, and then people can pick and choose how to use the channel. Makes it more available, easier to find. Open for everyone (regardless of client or application).

 

[RavenStryker]

I agree with ravidge above, I like it it can be customized to your liking and I know it's been a while since I've been in the TF2Maps steam chat but there had been(a while ago) quite a lot of times where it is filled it nonsense that I wouldn't care about or even want to read. Grant it I know the same thing could happen in IRC, but maybe it will be a place of more talk of maps and help then what I'm going to be doing later on in the day or how my dog just ate some cauliflower and is farting and stinking up the whole room. Lol. =P

BTW Ravidge, what ~nnscript are you using for your Mirc? I really like the look of it and wouldn't mind using it if you don't mind =)

 

[Ravidge]

BTW Ravidge, what ~nnscript are you using for your Mirc? I really like the look of it and wouldn't mind using it if you don't mind =)

It's nnscript 4.22
The theme is "Midnight Luna", comes with the install if you choose to include themes. I just switched around some colors and made minor changes to the messages (like removing the long connect,disconnect messages)

Find me in the channel (PM) and I'll send it to you

 

[grazr]

...I know it's been a while since I've been in the TF2Maps steam chat but there had been(a while ago) quite a lot of times where it is filled it nonsense that I wouldn't care about or even want to read. Grant it I know the same thing could happen in IRC, but maybe it will be a place of more talk of maps and help then what I'm going to be doing later on in the day or how my dog just ate some cauliflower and is farting and stinking up the whole room...

My experience of IRC is 30 old farts idling all day; someone logs in, makes a joke, 5 people see 10 minutes later, "lol", then disconnect. Atleast the steamchat is always busy with discussions, TF2/mapping related or not. Most of the time it's the regulars posting WIP pics and asking for advice or people arranging impromptu's. Other times it's people linking youtube vids or discussing the latest piece of technology they just discovered. On the odd occasion, it's Booj beating void up or me drunk, or YM pretending not to be working on Ep3.

Another thing about IRC is because no one ever talks, unless they are harassing the channel admin, no one ever actually knows nor gets to know each other. They just make witty comments every 6 hours about how their computer is always on and that they are never really on it. Trying to convince themselves they're not nerds despite the fact they idle in 20 IRC channels. Out of the 40 regulars that join steamchat throughout the day i frequently talk to 30+ of them.

 

[DJive]

I've always been up for one or the other, not both.

While IRC is nice.. ancient and old.. but works great most people here have come from steam chat.

On top of that to do anything at all in tf2 you need to have steam open.. which means steam chat is only a button away.

Had we started on IRC i would have much preferred that.

But we started with Steam chat so to keep it easy, its great for what "we" need from it.

 

[grazr]

...On top of that to do anything at all in tf2 you need to have steam open.. which means steam chat is only a button away...

...But we started with Steam chat so to keep it easy, its great for what "we" need from it.

qft.

We are a steam community and to claim that to have steam open to use the chat is a nuisance is just codswallop. We're usaully in the SDK, TF2 or even some other steam game so steam is gonna be running anyway (or need to be running at some point); and as already mentioned the steam chat is integrated into steam games.

Sure other communities run IRC channels but because steamchat is working for "us" and what "we" "do"... the need is not apparent.

 

[Flame]

channels up regardless.

#tf2maps on gamesurge.

i plan on using it more than the chatroom and suggest most of you idle both if at all possible.

 

[Terr]

The main reason I would not want Steam chat is (A) it's a pain to use from non-home machines (B) I think everything should be logged.

IRC has been developed for years, it has all the standard features you need in a chat, just to name one thing: chatlogs.

To elaborate on this: Just like the posts and threads, the back-and-forth on an IRC channel (especially when helping newbies or trying to collaboratively debug something) can be extremely useful later down the line, and AFAIK there's no way to extract that value from Steam's system. It ought to be archived and searchable, so the next time someone searches for "trigger_teleport AND broken" they can benefit from the last person who had the same problem in chat.

There are plenty of TF2 "communities" that are just people joking around and playing games and telling yo-momma jokes at each other and announcing that they are playing drunk... While TF2Maps is also a kind of community, it's not just that, it's also a resource, a community focused on getting things done, and from that perspective I think IRC wins hands-down.

I don't even have to minimize to click a shortcut, then search through my favourites for the server, where it is usually missing due to my server list filters. It's just easy is what i'm saying.

As long as your IRC client supports links, it's pretty easy to do the exact same thing:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_browser_protocol

 

[Void]

I don't get why we need another thing to split up the community.

Months ago this place was fine and thriving.

Now, however, we have members leaving, and people wanting to split the community even more.

Why can't we just stay in one place? We have what we need. We've had it for years.

We don't need IRC and we don't need another civil war over it.

 

[Shmitz]

IRC and Steam Chat are NOT mutually exclusive.


It's because we've grown that we can easily support both without splitting the community.

 

[Lord Ned]

There's no point in splitting it. Why idle/sit in two locations?

 

[Void]

It's just simpler to have everything in one place. We have games, we have the ability to connect directly to a friend's game, we can talk to anyone in the group - and then some! We had... we have everything we need. We don't need more splitting among this community because the powers-that-be are deciding for us. We already had enough loss over these past few months.

 

[Sel]

There's no point in splitting it. Why idle/sit in two locations?

It's one right now, as steam has been down the last half an hour :]

 

[Flame]

!kb ThePoliticalGamer

 

[Void]

That's the only good thing I can see for IRC. It can simply be a backup.

But it's kind of been voted (you know, up in that poll) that we should stick with Steam. Polls don't have a point if we just ignore them all the time.

Sure, different people had different opinions, but the people have spoken. And they have spoken for Steam.

 

[Ida]

It's one right now, as steam has been down the last half an hour :]

5 minutes*

 

[Leminnes]

It would not split up the community. I am not sure where this absurd idea is coming from. It's not like we're going to make an IRC and suddenly, DEAR GOD, everyone leaves Steam Chat.

THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL. Make a goddamn IRC. No harm will come from it, and all you reactionaries can calm down.