pl_redmesa a17

balance hell

  1. BsP

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  2. BsP

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    -Added aditional signs and lights so the flanks are more visible
    -Rotated the last point blast doors by 45 degrees
    -Moved farter away the resupply locker in the last point's bottom red spawnroom, also its door was clipping through the floor above, now its fixed
    -Added a fence in the last point cliff flank so the spawn doors can't be spammed through the high ground
    -Replaced orange dev texture crates placed for scout jumping with models
    -Removed hiding spot near blue first spawn aka cubby

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  3. BsP

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    -Reduced blue team advantage on first point
    -Added ramp to the 2nd point flank, so its more used and replaced the doorframes with a one way door
    -Added a fence to 2nd point to prevent a sightline
    -Flipped a elevated platform ramp so is easier for red to defend the 3rd point when the cart is past the big doorframe (or choke, I don't know how to call it)
    -In the feedback page they refered as "cubby" to a spot in the flank in the 3rd point, and I though they refered to the one near blue first spawn, I deleted both of them
    -Changes to last point cliff flank, now attackers don't have high ground, some say is spawncampy, I will try to keep the fence I added and let's see if that works, in my opinion without this flank it would be very hard to take out the sentries
    -Added and changed blue forward spawns for 2nd point and 3rd point
    -Fixed getting stuck in red first spawn door if blue captured 2nd point just when you were exiting
    -Added more cover for blue first spawn
    -Reduced sightline from last point high ground to the bridge in the choke
    -Minor layout changes and minor pickups placement changes

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  4. BsP

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    -Removed testing signs
    -Simplified blue forward spawns
    -Now red can use a flank to get to the 1st point quicker, before it could only be used by blue after they capped 1st point
    -Removed red spawn door that led to the cliff flank in last point

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  5. BsP

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    -Raised speed of spawn doors
    -Deleted fence props and replaced others with geometry to prevent blue being easily spawncamped in the 1st point
    -Placed patches overlays to signify where pickups spawn
    -Replaced window that led to the 3rd point area from blue's side with a dropdown to prevent easy spam
    -Fixed getting stuck in the red first spawn

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  6. BsP

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  7. FloofCollie

    aa FloofCollie asshole

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    Played this in the IMP yesterday (I think?). Really solid map, everyone seemed to like it and it was surprisingly easy to memorize the layout. I really love the the highground with the staircase at B, made for a lot of fun and interesting gameplay.

    The only real problems I had were around last. I feel like last itself is too small - and I'm assuming your intent is for last to just act like a hold to stop the cart going through the choke, and when it does get through, for the game to be won easily by BLU - however, even though this is the idea behind most PL chokes, there's still plenty of breathing room for fighting in final points like Badwater's, Upward's, Barnblitz's, etc. It feels a bit too confined to the chokes to me, and if you sneak in as Spy this becomes even more clear. The fighting tends to be restricted to the chokes moreso than in other maps (or maybe the chokes separate the areas too much? Not sure). I feel like pushing RED's spawn further from the hatch and stretching the area out could help, and could also probably help make the flank round to the area facing the main choke feel less needlessly big. Despite this, I think last feels really cool just like the other areas in the map.

    Other issues I had were that, when pushing last, a Sniper can watch the path from your spawn exit through the geometry at C. If you want I can take some screenshots to demonstrate what I mean. It also feels like defenders can come from all angles in the area before the valley before last, but I expect there's not much you could do about that and it's just the way the map's designed.

    Good luck with this map, it's really fun. :)
     
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  8. BsP

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    Hi and thanks for the feedback! Also is nice to know people like it.

    I agree with you with last, is too cramped, and sentry nest friendly. We tried some changes but none of them really worked, so in the next update we made last bigger and the cliff flank less open.

    Oh, if you provide screenshots it would be much appreciated, because im not sure if I know what you are refering to, are you refering to when Blue caps 3rd, you can get sniped from this angle? https://imgur.com/a/nstdlxx
    I placed a window that closes when Blue caps 3rd, but if im wrong about what you meant, I may aswell leave the window, could be a problem too.

    About that defenders can come from all angles, I guess is because they can use the flanks too, if Blue doesn't watch them. But did that felt unfair or cheap?
     
  9. BsP

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  10. FloofCollie

    aa FloofCollie asshole

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    No probs :)

    Yes, I believe it was that window.

    I don't think it felt unfair or cheap, it was just something I noticed. I expect it's more likely to happen if BLU get flushed out of the choke, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just how the game goes.
     
  11. BsP

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    -Made a wall for the first blue spawn so snipers can't shoot your feet (that's kinda funny tbh)
    -Added a new area around 2nd point, makes a decent second hold position and makes the area less cramped, also a faster route for attackers
    -Added a stair to the 2nd point flank so is not a one-way dropdown
    -Moved the final control point ahead a bit
    -Moved pickups in the cliff flank room closer to red's side in last, so if blue controls that area is easier for red to retake it

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  12. BsP

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  13. BsP

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    -Adjusted 1st point flanks so they are easier to defend
    -Added path to highground for red in the 2nd point
    -Added forward spawn for red in the 3rd point
    -One way door in 1st and 2nd point now shows a sign of no entry if you can't pass through
    -Fixed getting stuck in the one way door mentioned above when 1st was capped

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  14. BsP

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  15. BsP

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  16. BsP

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    -Shortened last's cliff flank, but no longer has a cliff. Will be even closer if it continues to feel disconnected from the main path
    -Replaced dev texture crates with a ramp in the high ground of 2nd point
    -Added hazard decals to signify rollback zones
    -High platform flank from 3rd point now can only be acceded by soldiers and demos
    -Fixed red spawn door opening down and not up
    -Changed blue forward spawns distances
    -Fixed being able to stand above the choke of last

    (Some people tell me to use the advanced parameters for prop shadows, the reason i don't compile with them is that this is a alpha map, and I didn't care much of how everything looked, I will compile with them from now on anyway, bad thing is it takes longer and takes more space)

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  17. BsP

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    Major problems seems to be at the moment that red can horribly flank blue and be behind really easy, some sniper sightlines, and from what i've seen red takes way too long to spawn and that lets blue roll everything
    And some people say that is "a discount badwater", well it took a lot of influence of it, but I don't know if it is really a bad thing..
    This is being a hell to balance

    -Replaced the "jump class filter" in C with a actual walkway that red can drop of from, blue scouts and jump classes can go to, i'm trying to see if it works now or is just a annoyance
    -Red could go behind blue in C, that flank now has a one way door, and is closer to the main path, kinda tricky in this one, probably not the best solution but we will see, also the dropdown that that flank had before was there so that blue could rejoin the main path quickly, but it seems that only helps red to flank, so it was replaced with two windows leading to the choke
    -Fixed a doorway giving a nasty sightline to the first red spawn
    -Some tweaks to the high flank from the first point
    -Reduced red spawn time from 9 to 6
    -Deleted roll back zones, I think they just made it way harder to push, because they were quite long
    -Added a stair to the high ground in B

    All this is done at my interpretation after watching the feedback page and the demos, but looks like I fix a problem, another one appears, or maybe I don't even fix the problem in the first place. Thanks for the feedback by the way, im trying my best

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  18. BsP

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    -Removed the lower flank in last
    -Added a one way door for red to enter the 1st point, opens for both teams when 1st is capped (this was because blue could easily get to the red spawn)
    -Added back the 1st point cliff flank stair, and opened the fence again, this serves as a sentry nest counter, since sentries can't reach there (from what people said and I've seen atleast)
    -Added a extra route for the one way door in C, so is less risky

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  19. BsP

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    -Closed the B point high ground flank
    -Placed the one way door in C forward, and added a window so is possible to go back to the main path quickly
    -Opened up more a flank in C
    -Moved even closer a flank to the blue side in last
    -Added a additional exit to the forward spawn of blue and made it less of a doorway hell

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  20. BsP

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    -Left side flank in last is only usable for blue now, but jumping classes can access it
    -Fixed a long sightline tiny gap in the 2nd point
    -Fixed broken I/O in the 3rd point red's spawn door when blue caps

    (I'm aware of the skybox rendering glitch, I appreciate the feedback, i'm not ignoring it, is just that I got better priorities right now, i'm still trying to see if the map is fun and balanced overall)

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