Mudslide

[Psy]

That looks and lot simpler compared to before where it was horribly cramped.

 

[Ida]

cp_mudbath_a7 released!
- Changed sky to Hydro's.
- Decreased cap times for the middle and second points by 1 second each.
- Removed some obstructive props by point 2 in an attempt to open it up.
- Lowered part of the fence by cap point 2.
- Changed building between points 2 and mid. It's now more open, the path to the mid's battlements is more inviting and it makes point 2 less campable, hopefully getting rid of the stale feeling between the two points.
- Changed the battlements by the middle to eliminate a long sightline.
- Put some paint patches under all health and ammo kits.
- Disabled some dynamic prop shadows.

 

[Hellfire]

- Changed sky to Hydro's.

i guess this might be intresting

- Decreased cap times for the middle and second points by 1 second each.
- Removed some obstructive props by point 2 in an attempt to open it up.
- Lowered part of the fence by cap point 2.
- Changed building between points 2 and mid. It's now more open, the path to the mid's battlements is more inviting and it makes point 2 less campable, hopefully getting rid of the stale feeling between the two points.

hope that will prevent stalemates

- Changed the battlements by the middle to eliminate a long sightline.

YAAAAAY! no more sniperheaven?

 

[Ida]

hope that will prevent stalemates

So I hope, but I haven't gone crazy with this version either, so there may still be a need for change.

YAAAAAY! no more sniperheaven?

Sorry, this was a new one that appeared when I opened up the big building that allowed you to see from point 2 to the middle. The two windows looking over the middle have received no changes, but I'm not really sure if they need it... There has to be an opening there, and Snipers need some room to play too.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

MAN you've been busy! I just ran through your latest version and I am thoroughly impressed! The changes you've made are excellent and your redesign of middle has me VERY impressed. It looks to me that your middle play will rival that of Badlands or Granary in intensity, it's just so sleek and well constructed. I would honestly leave it as is... although the one thing that really bothered me throughout was...

PICK-UPS!

GAH! Why do you have to have SOOO many of them? Remember that you're doing a linear CP map here and not dustbowl or fastlane... stay away from those levels of health. You just have too much in some places and also some strange spots. Remember that health tends to bring the battle to those places, so putting them in quirky corners in the middle of battle areas really makes the area flow badly.

So, I'd say to remove: Small healths @ mid, medium healths under ramps to middle, medium health & ammo @ 2nd, small ammo on rock @ last, large ammo on edge @ last. I think you'll find that the number of small healths you've included already along with the strategic other healthpacks will absolutely change the way the map flows, maybe so far as to fix the flow problems between middle & 2nd that people above seem to describe.

Best of luck and next time you test 'er out I'd love to visit! I'm so excited by this map as a possibility for a competitive 5CP map, the comp community needs to see maps like this one.

<3 FoXy

 

[Ida]

Thanks for the kind words. Also, thanks a ton for feedback on the health and ammo - those are incredibly hard to get right, so I've only made minor adjustments up until now. Needless to say, directions on what to do with them is great! I guess that will be a major change of a8.

 

[Ida]

Oh wow, this is one tough stalemate to fix. I'm sad to see the map completely lock up like this, but at least there is reason to be somewhat releived; The relation between the middle and the second point seemed better now, and I believe the main problem has shifted over to the relation between the second and final points. Seems like the losing team is able to take back the second point way too fast...

I'll think a little more about this, but I'd really appreciate a bit of feedback from the gameday as well.

 

[DaBeatzProject]

I think the main problem was the 2nd capture point. Too narrow exits and entrances to the area. One bigger hall or something could maybe make a big difference. I dunno, I think you'll have to think a lot about it to make it easier for both teams to push back/further.

 

[Ida]

Fixing these narrow exits and entrances is hard, but it's what I focused on in a7 (namely opening up the building between the two points), so I feel that it's not such a big problem anymore. However, there's definitely room for improvement, so I might try to make other areas more open too. Where would this "bigger hall" you're suggesting be?

Also, a quite scary realisation about points 2 and final: the biggest problem here may be that the losing team is able to get to the second point faster than the losing winning team can get to the final point, in a situation where the winning team has just capped the second point. This could be remedied by spawn times, but that would feel a little artifical, and it's hardly foolproof either.

That means I might have to redo a LOT around these two points to make them work... Move the cap, lenghten the walk from spawn to 2nd, something like that. I've definitely learned something, but this is quite frusrating. You won't be seeing a8 this Wednesday, so to speak...

 

[Hellfire]

one thing i like about the map (same thing my maps always lack) is that its allways obvious where to go. in any part of the map i can get it just looking arround) and yea,2\4 cp were the main problem last time, but i havent seen a7, so i cant tell if the problem remains

 

[Ida]

That's good to hear, however I don't think everyone will agree with you. I always see people go straight ahead out of spawn instead of following the two giant signs pointing to the left. I guess it's because for new players this feels right, rather than going through a small doorway, so this will also be something I'm going to work on for a8.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/forums/thread/405259/

Muffin I hope you don't mind because I honestly just forgot to ask, but I posted a topic on gotfrag's mapping forum, hoping to get you some competitive map testing. Like I've said a thousand times, I find that competitive testing reveals underlying flow problems and imbalances that are too precise to be determined through average playtesting.

Much <3 and good luck! Can't wait for the next version!

 

[Psy]

Downloaded this map and played it in a 6v6 pug with some friends. It looked pretty promising as it was downloading and as we were connecting to the server, but as soon as we started playing several issues came up. The first issue--and we noticed this immediately--is that from the spawn you can tell that the map isn't Badlands. Well, "whatever," we mused on vent, "maybe it's a good map anyway."

As we arrived at the 2nd point heading to middle, however, several people in vent exclaimed "hey, this isn't Granary either." I looked around and reluctantly agreed, and apparently the other team had made the same realization, because they had already disconnected. We quickly left the server, never to return to CP_MUDBATH.

Well...that was useful?

 

[Ida]

Fox, I was actually going to wait until it was a little more complete and non-mapper friendly, but now that it's there, I don't mind. I hope they'll have mercy on the map and give some feedback, regardless of its incomplete state. If they won't, I guess I'll try again later anyway.

And I hope mr. DukeNukemsDick is kidding...

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

He's a well known troll, that post will be fragged soon enough...

Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit, I just don't have the resources to get this tested 6v6 for you (anymore). ^__^

 

[Ida]

Some new WIP screenshots of what I've been working on for a8:

Those two pictures show the new last point. Yes, indeed, I went ahead and redid it. This is something I've been wanting to do for a while, because let's face it, that point wasn't very exciting. It was just a spamfest. I hope the height differences and stuff will help remove that feeling. I'm happy with this so far!

This just shows a bit of point 2 - it's been changed ever so slightly; Now you can get from the point to the building above, plus that same doorway also leads to the last point. I'm excited to see how this will work out.

Now I just need to copy it all over to RED. Which will take, ohh, two months. ;_;

 

[Owlruler]

+50 love at the first picture

 

[Ida]

cp_mudbath_a8 released!
- Increased spawn time for the losing team and decreased it for the winning team.
- Added low fences on the middle point to prevent people accidentally falling off.
- Removed some health and ammo; downgraded health and ammo by the second point.
- Added a new path that goes between the first point, the second point and the building above the second point, mainly to get players taking the long route back on track.
- Moved the first control point and the first spawn back, to help prevent the losing team immediately retaking the second point once the winning team has captured it.
- Did some changes to the cap point building so it's less boring and hall-of-death-like.

Yeah, it took a while this time, but this is something I really had to think through. I think I've made the right decision, but I do by no means think all the problems have been solved yet. We'll see.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

Really good changes, some of them were very well informed and I'm excited about them, but some of the other changes to last have me a little confused. Personally I really rather like last the way it was except for the lack of a front entrance, which you fixed... The side hallways leading to 2nd is brilliant too! The thing is that the lack of that lower area now makes the point much less interesting and a lot easier for the offense. To balance, I'd suggest giving the defenders another spawn exit, moving the garage doors around to prevent spam on their spawn from the point/vice versa, and and replacing the side path with a ledge that connects to the old underground area (with a path to the defenders' spawn also), to give the defense a nice drop down behind anyone around the point.

^_^








p

 

[Ida]

Thanks for the great detailed response once again. I'll have to wait until some testing has been done before I do any changes, but a few comments on what you posted in your screens:

1: Good idea - I probably will.
2: I might do that, it's just that it would mean having to demolish a detail area. I definitely see the need for it, though.
3: I actually thought of doing that, but I left it like that because I didn't want too many side paths and stuff. We'll see.
4: Hmm... Yeah, I was unsure about the side path, but I want it there. I want spies to be able to get up there easily to sap sentries, but I might make a little ledge like you suggested and put some "crate stairs" there.
5: Maybe. I think it makes sense to be able to cap there as well. I guess I could (re)move the health and ammo, though.
6: Dunno, common problem with shadows, I think.
7: It's a window.
8: I suppose I should add a fence there, yeah.