Industry

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by XFunc_CaRteR, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    Overview:

    Red is PISSED! Blu has been blowing up Red bases with payload bombs far too long! Where do these Blu bombs come from? Red's going to find out - and put a stop to it!

    Red team must escort its payload into Blu's bomb factory.

    Notes:

    Basically (if you couldn't figure it out), this is a payload map where Red is pushing the bomb into Blu turf. This means it looks totally different from most traditional payload maps out there (which are always Blu attacking into Red terrain).

    It's also designed for big-team play. I noticed that most traditional payload maps tend to bog down when you get large teams of experienced players -- too many narrow approaches; they know all the good ways to dam up the attackers; the teams get choked and can rarely get the payload moving (think Gold Rush and Hoodoo mainly: the attacking team is lucky if they can get to the second cap).

    In Industry here, I give some long out-flanking routes to help advance the payload when there are a lot of defenders demo-spamming and whatnot.

    (Plus, I make it a little easier for Engies to keep their teleporters in action... as you'll soon find out... This compensates for the slightly larger map size, too.)

    It's a map for a lot of players - one that rewards teamwork and hopefully makes it possible for the attackers to outflank and keep the bomb moving when you have a brutally turtled defender dug in with a ton of sentries. (That's the idea anyway...)

    Plus, I think it's a cool new setting for a payload map.

    Looking forward to your playtester feedback.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2009
  2. Palamag

    Palamag L1: Registered

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    Awesome job. But i feel that sometime the walls look... empty. There nothing on them. You could add some overlays. Just to fill a bit the plain looking wall.

    Other than that this map look awesome.
     
  3. SPHinx

    SPHinx L2: Junior Member

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    After seeing the BLU defend design, I had to give this one a run through. Too bad the cart and the home icon on the HUD can't be RED. Grr!

    First, some screenshots of things I noticed:
    [​IMG]
    I tried to capture the fire alarm bell there in mid fade-out. This was a general issue I noticed. Lots of props were fading in and out in a way that was quite noticeable and distracting. Just increase the view distance.

    [​IMG]
    This wall I found kind of oppressive. I think it's just too much of that one metal texture. Also, the wood grain on the under side of that upper diagonal brush is, to my mind, running the wrong way.

    [​IMG]
    Too much of the metal grating. I had this problem in my own maps. In Hammer I think it looks really good. But in game, drawing all those little lines on the screen looks crap.

    [​IMG]
    I didn't understand this hallway. Kind of weird and doesn't really seem to fit with the rest of the map.

    [​IMG]
    Now to the good stuff. I really like this room. I was sitting on the cart rolling through the map, and when I got here, it was definitely a "Wow" moment. Very cool space. Nice detail with the bomb moving across that conveyor.

    And on that note, I think the map is too big. I know you said you made it big to accommodate lots of players, but with all of the different areas and tunnels and halfway check-points, I think it's too much. If I was you, I would cut out most of the exterior stuff, except for the roof ending---keep that. I think your best work is in the dark green interior space, shifting to the lighter concrete, and then to the spytech offices on the top floor.

    [​IMG]

    Like I just said, I thought this transition from texture themes was beautifully done and nicely detailed. Again, my big advice for going forward would be to shorten/eliminate all the stuff that comes before those last 3 checkpoints. Maybe have RED start just outside a loading dock or something, hop on the cart, bust into the factory, and off they go, climbing up floor after floor to get to the roof. BOOM!
     
  4. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I'm pretty sure industry as a map name is taken, if only by another game mode. It's a fairly cliché map title and you might try and be a little more imaginative with it.

    edit: It's also best to stick with Valve's established game mechanics; Red defending and Blu assaulting may feel monotonous across all the various A/D maps but it adds continuity to the game, players immediately know their role when spawning and choosing teams. Changing it around may seem like an original (and trust me, it isn't) and fun idea, but it's conflictive and confusing at best. Not to mention additionally problematic due to your broken HUD.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  5. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. (And here it is not even 24 hours yet.)

    Thanks for noticing the texture transitioning theme and the positive remarks.

    Large & Plain Walls: I was trying to get this huge monolithic, empty factory feeling. That's why I have the dust bunnies in the corners - to convey that sense of an abandoned warehouse feel. Will take a look into more overlays or whatnot. (I tried to use shadows mainly to break up those walls. Might try more of that.) Might change the exterior corrugated metal textures around some, if I can come up with some good ideas.

    The Name: Know that there is a ctf Industry map. I'm thinking of changing the name.

    Fading Props: I've been paranoid about trying to maintain as high a framerate as possible. Maybe that's not as much an issue as I think. Will take a closer look at that, particularly for fading props people mention as distracting.

    Vent Gratings: I originally had a better texture for that: a transparent one. It looked awesome, but it technically was a glass texture and brought the framerate down at the bombsite (which I thought needed a really high framerate). That's why I chose the other one. Might switch to the gray grating texture, or maybe just get rid of them altogether.

    Large Map Size: I'm going to wait on some playtesting on this. Maybe I'll turn it into a multi-stage payload map.

    The Reversed Roles In Payload: I wanted to do something different. Different sometimes means people start out confused, but soon catch on. Hopefully they'll accept it. Plus, the whole colour scheme would change if it were a Red factory: it would have reddish tones and so on.

    Thanks tons for the feedback so far.
     
  6. owly-oop

    aa owly-oop im birb

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    It's unnecessary to have red attacking and blu defending. Yes it is different but that makes me only think it's a half-assed attempt to make this map unique.

    It isn't innovative, and only causes confusion, and what happens when they catch on? "Oh the teams are switched." So? Nothing else happens there, it doesn't add to anything, and as said before, unnecessary.
     
  7. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    I wanted to switch the sides. I don't really have to justify anything as "necessary". (Is playing a game at all necessary?) I just wanted to do that.

    I think players have spent tons of time pushing a blue bomb through a red-toned world. I wanted to see what it was like in reverse.
     
  8. Sgt.Sausage

    Sgt.Sausage L7: Fancy Member

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    Looks nice, but already a cp_industry. Its pretty old but i used to see it on some servers.
    Probably doesnt matter though its pl anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  9. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    Just did a big update: see the Changelog.
     
  10. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    Moonquake gave me advice, and so I found out the map had far too many entities (1900+) for multiplayer.

    Over the past 2 days I stripped out almost 500 entities (a lot of it converting point_spotlights to env_sprites, as point_spotlights each contain 2 entities but sprites are 1). So the map is probably now ready for MP alpha-testing. Just need to compile and re- upload it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
  11. Sgt.Sausage

    Sgt.Sausage L7: Fancy Member

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    I definitely agree, change it back to the default red defend blu attack. That is just how tf2 is setup no reason to change it, it doesnt do anything and if its just for originality dont bother. Hate to break it to you but people have tried it before, pointless i have to say. Plus it will fix the hud problems anyway, or should.

    But besides that its looks really nice, now i wanna see how it plays.
     
  12. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    Guys...

    I just did a major update of pl_Industry to Alpha 3.

    The main change was I removed a huge number of entities, based on MoonQuake's advice. (I had almost 2000 entities, now I'm down to 1485, which brings it under the 1500 recommended for a TF2 map [about 500 set aside just for the players].) The map shouldn't crash in multiplayer now.

    Also I did some decorative changes, and made a small gameplay / flow alteration (added a bypass to a cap zone I'm concerned will become a chokepoint).

    Check the file above.
     
  13. Monster Killer

    Monster Killer L1: Registered

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    Looks good. You seem to have put a lot of good details in places which fit well and look great. Though in my opinion some of the roofs look plain and flat but thats only my small opinion. Great work though :)
     
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  14. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    It crashed twice. I moved on to the next map. Someone said it might have something to do with some teleporter credit room thing? It's also a very convoluted layout and had everyone confused.
     
  15. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    I think it crashed because at this time it has 1485 entities. It might also be the fact Valve doesn't provide a Red payload team_train_watcher entity.

    I do admit I tried to do a different kind of layout. The Red payload may be unfamiliar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  16. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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    Removed more than a hundred more entities to prevent crashing. This should allow for a real playtesting session.
     
  17. XFunc_CaRteR

    XFunc_CaRteR L5: Dapper Member

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