I'm hating Apple even more

[Ganonmaster]

good point. but if we are going to go down the route, both microsoft and apple are both losers here since open source version of almost any software exist. (and its usuall superior)

firefox, thunderbird mail, open office, etc.

Quoted for truth. Love Firefox and Thunderbird.

 

[drp]

It doesnt even have right click!!!

 

[Ganonmaster]

Yes it does. Here's a screenshot from my mom's Mac (it's dutch but w/e):

 

[PMAvers]

Apple seems to have a very specific customer following. My design course primarily utilises Apple Macintosh's. Whether this is down to a supposedly more stable OS or not is primarily unknown, but a possibility given the uses of the Mac's; particularly the 3d and video software.

Designer's seem to favour the Mac for a number of reasons, most of which seem to only be visual easthetics. Which doesn't exactly warrant the larger expense. But i suppose since they would have baught in bulk (and for an educational purpose IE a University) a discount would have been probable.

System-level color calibration that's free and that works.

That's a BIG thing for people in the design field.

I'll be a Pc person forever, I have no hate against MAC, i think their ads are silly and pricing is off..

But what i hate about MAC's are the FANBOI!111oneoneeleven

Same I'll forever hate HALO, SSB, WoW and jonas brothers.

Oh, come on. The Windows fanboys are just as bad, if not worse.

 

[drp]

Yes it does. Here's a screenshot from my mom's Mac (it's dutch but w/e):

i know but i wanted to gripe a little more

 

[MrAlBobo]

Well in Apple's defense their ad's at least have reasons why to switch. They have to try very hard to convince people to even look at Mac's because they're a little more highly priced. Microsoft on the other hand just came out and said "Why bother buying Apple products, they're overpriced and you get less!" When Microsoft is already in the lead I don't think they really needed to do that. I suppose this is a viable campaign strategy but... meh.

But...this is the truth?

Oh, come on. The Windows fanboys are just as bad, if not worse.

Might want to notice the differences in percentage...
I know alot of people that use windows, I honestly can't say that any of them are fan-boys. The closest ive seen to a windows fan-boy is someone that hates macs yet is unaware of the reasons.

However I also know a good number of people that use macs, and honestly, the great majority of them are fan-boys...for the simple reason that you will not buy something that is significantly overpriced unless you think that something is much better then it really is <_<


Something ive always enjoyed asking mac users is why they use a mac. The results are almost always amusing. The most common answer is, "its better then windows" following that I ask why. From here there are three strands, the people who say it has better graphics applications, the people who say its more stable, and the people that either don't know, or think its better overall for no apparent reason. The people who don't know why they think its better I usually just laugh at. The people who think its more stable tend to be the more intelligent type who either doesn't require the programs windows has that mac does not or knows how to run those programs on their mac, these would be the people who aren't fanboys, they are still unable to justify the higher price though.

The better graphics people have never been able to answer the question of why they think macs have better graphics, so...to this day I still have no idea why so many people think this...perhaps someone here could enlighten me? And I'm not referring to macs usually having higher end screens then the average pc, I want to know why people think that programs like photoshop per say work better on a mac. As I have used photoshop on a mac and a pc and noticed no real difference...minus the lack on right click on mighty mouse

 

[Brandished]

Honestly, if I wanted a laptop an Apple would be a real consideration for me considering repair costs and my experience with Apple's overall reliability and support. I've never had a problem with Apple's tech support for the several times I've called them over the years. For certain companies you would have to pay for a premium plan (adding anywhere from $50 to over $300 to the total cost) to get something online with Apple's included support.

I don't know about HP, but the last few times I used Dell's support it was a nightmare, the line quality was bad, the reps refused to continue the call me unless I followed a "is your computer plugged in?" flow-chart, I couldn't understand 2/3's of the conversation due to a complete lack of English fluency, and even when I followed all the procedures with common courtesy (at least for the 1st call), the reps would still hang up on me. For one issue I must have called them back 3 times talking to at least three different reps and the results were always the same. Call, do useless bs flowchart, my problem is not resolvable using said bs flowchart, rep refused to continue the call or issue support ticket and hangs up. I even escalated to the support manager and they were equally useless. I don't think I've ever resolved an issue with them over the phone since they outsourced calls and they used to have great support. This isn't isolated either, everyone I've talked to had the same experience with them. Not only does Dell have no chance at receiving any more business from me, I advise everyone I know considering a computer to avoid them.

 

[Nineaxis]

The way I see it is:

Microsoft - pay less, get crap, maybe shiny crap. Well-supported crap.
You buy a PC, it's created by different people, assembled, given some company's badge, with someone else's OS, comes loaded with crapware, get tech support from India, have to download drivers for everything, stuff stops working for no reason, download more stuff to get other stuff working right. Kind of a mish-mosh held together with duct tape.

However, people support this. I'm always going to have a PC desktop, for stuff like gaming, because PC is what people support.

Apple - pay more, get what all companies should strive to produce.
Parts made by people, assembled by one company, with their OS, with support for their products seamlessly. Clean, simple. Slightly overpriced, but with it you get a quality guarantee and support from people in America you can go and see with your own two eyes.

If I ever get a laptop, I'm getting a macbook.



Now, the bigger question. Do we really need a PC vs. Mac flame-thread on our forums?

 

[MrAlBobo]

The way I see it is:

Microsoft - pay less, get crap, maybe shiny crap. Well-supported crap.
You buy a PC, it's created by different people, assembled, given some company's badge, with someone else's OS, comes loaded with crapware, get tech support from India, have to download drivers for everything, stuff stops working for no reason, download more stuff to get other stuff working right. Kind of a mish-mosh held together with duct tape.

However, people support this. I'm always going to have a PC desktop, for stuff like gaming, because PC is what people support.

Apple - pay more, get what all companies should strive to produce.
Parts made by people, assembled by one company, with their OS, with support for their products seamlessly. Clean, simple. Slightly overpriced, but with it you get a quality guarantee and support from people in America you can go and see with your own two eyes.

If I ever get a laptop, I'm getting a macbook.

yep...this is pretty much correct, windows is crap, but its the most compatible and thus can do the most, whereas the stuff that works on a mac works flawlessly...but its expensive

I doubt I will ever own a mac, the very concept of not being able to customize my computers and not pack all the best stuff I can into them for the least amount of money irritates me

I actually have a list of various types of programs, and as soon as the entire list can be run easily by a different operating system...well...goodbye windows

Now, the bigger question. Do we really need a PC vs. Mac flame-thread on our forums?

Its a requirement that every forum have at least one mac vs pc debate/ flame war

 

[grazr]

...stuff...

That's ironic considering here in the UK we have excellent Windows support. Maybe it's just the I.T. store i use (Novatech). But when it comes to Mac support all of my Mac favouring friends have had to resort to sending off their mac-tops, with a breach of contract whereby Apple do not abide by their 28 day garauntee, get a refund on their Apple-ware and buy a PC in return, and go on a crazy night's piss up with the excess.

Perhaps Macintosh simply do not care for their U.K. Market.

I have no idea about Dell's support network, But Novatech's U.K. PC support has always had any issues dealt with in under 14 days, irrespective of the 28 day garauntee. I've only had one issue with their 28 day garauntee but that was my own fualt, and i still got a refund for the hardware, despite blatent negligence onto myself. I have no complaints about Windows support here, other than the fact that i will always prefer Windows 98 to XP. Call me old fashioned.

P.S. The number one complaint by tech savvy Mac users seems to be the lack of third party media software. iTunes is the only viable media player at the moment which pisses a lot of hardcore music fans off.

I have no particular favourate. But i'm more familiar with Windows, so i prefer using Adobe software on my PC. Plus in my experience, trying to access the internet through a network on a Mac is just way too much hassle.

 

[PMAvers]

Its a requirement that every forum have at least one mac vs pc debate/ flame war

It's true. It's a rule.

*holds up the rule-book*

See? It's right there.

 

[Shmitz]

Apple - pay more, get what all companies should strive to produce.

Here's where I disagree, having used both PCs and Macs, I would say you pay more, and get what all companies generally produce anyway. Macs are not as special as their price tags try to imply.

 

[Brandished]

Perhaps Macintosh simply do not care for their U.K. Market.

Possible, I've never heard about a 28 day guarantee, a google search didn't giving me anything relevant either. For me the funny thing is I've never actually bought anything from Apple until getting an iPod Touch last month, but I've done support calls for other people (friends, relatives, coworkers, etc).

There are two big things that do stand out for me though. The first was when a friend of mine ordered one of their last lines of PowerPC iMacs. He only had it for one week, and although he had un-boxed it, he never hooked up as he was too busy with work. The next week Apple issued their official press release confirming that they were indeed switching everything to Intel. He didn't want to be stuck with an older model so he called Apple, and not only did Apple refund the whole transaction after he sent it back, but he also got a discount on an Intel iMac he bought several months later when Apple finally listed the new line for sale.

The second and biggest thing for me was getting my credit card stolen several years back after an online seller I did business with was hacked. I found out when I got a call from Apple's Support dept. to verify a questionable transaction on my card someone else had made. I was not only able to get the order canceled, but also got some relevant info to pass on to the feds after I verified my info, the whole call took about 15 minutes. After checking with my bank, I found another faulty order was also placed on my card through Dell's website. I called every Dell Support number I could find and never reached a support person located stateside. Even after 2 hours on the phone with support reps I was no better off then where I started. It was like no one knew what the hell they were doing, not only couldn't they retrieve any order info even after I gave the the card info, order date and summary, the whole time I was on the phone with people who could speak English as well as my 3 year old nephew. I was transferred from one department to the another, speaking with 5 or more different reps and I ended back up at the one I started with. I was so pissed I hung up at that point. Thanks to Apple's call I was able to act fast and cancel the card not too long after it was hijacked, as well as get all the bad transactions taken off, although it would have definitely been faster and easier if I could have canceled the order from Dell before it shipped. I can only imagine the fun my bank and the investigators had working out that issue with Dell.

I have no complaints about Windows support here, other than the fact that i will always prefer Windows 98 to XP. Call me old fashioned.

Or masochistic I dunno, maybe with nostalgia goggles. I could see 2000, but I didn't have many fun times with 98, but better supported hardware and/or drivers can make all the difference. For me, other then nostalgia or some older game that only worked on 95/98, I wouldn't go back, 2000/XP was a far more favorable experience.

P.S. The number one complaint by tech savvy Mac users seems to be the lack of third party media software. iTunes is the only viable media player at the moment which pisses a lot of hardcore music fans off.

Can't argue there, I enjoy loading iTunes to play one song about as much as I enjoy waiting for Steam to load to kill 5 minutes playing a quick game.

I've heard mixed results with using Songbird and Vox as media player alternatives, but I haven't used either. If I'm on a Mac, I usually just use VLC because it loads fast a plays almost everything.

I have no particular favourate. But i'm more familiar with Windows, so i prefer using Adobe software on my PC. Plus in my experience, trying to access the internet through a network on a Mac is just way too much hassle.

I find them both to be about the same, but they each have there own trickery required to get them to work sometimes.

Here's where I disagree, having used both PCs and Macs, I would say you pay more, and get what all companies generally produce anyway. Macs are not as special as their price tags try to imply.

I agree Macs are overpriced and Mac fans are beyond delusional as to their quality, but I don't think the mark-up is as insane as many make it out to be. They're are some amenities to their laptop lines: low weight (5~lbs), 5+ hour battery life, WiFi, Bluetooth, Gigabit Ethernet, an NVidia GPU, the full Apple SDK, and a built in webcam with mic. I'm not sure most people would actually have a use for all that, but it's not terribly shabby for a ~$1000 price point. For me, the main selling point is still the high reliability rating (consumer reports rated Apple's computers number 1 last I checked, I think Toshiba was number 2) and good customer support (at least in the US).

 

[grazr]

I've never delt with Dell personally, and by choice. A lot of their policies work on a phone-line basis, and exactly what you have experienced is one of the reasons why i have avoided Dell products. You wouldn't be the first, and probably not the last to have issues with Dell's tech support.

I've also never purchased anything by Apple. But mostly because of the prices, plus technology moves so fast these days it seems redundant to purchase something that will have a longer life than say a PC would. Although i can see the benefits if you have no desire to upgrade your product. I've had access to a lot of Apple's ware's through my university course. The Mac's seem pretty stable but the University is constantly having issues with the network stability. I'm not sure whether that's their own fualt or an Issue with the Mac's themselves, (Presumably it is the Mac's, as the PC's remain operative) but it drives me mad.

The 28 day garauntee i imagine would have been a store run policy. The southampton based Mac store is pretty *can't find the word* (significant?), but there are not many local Mac stores, so it makes a big deal about customer issues. But i couldn't say for sure as it wasn't I who dealed with the tech support. But it is the "local" store to Portsmouth where most of my friends have made their Macbook purchases.

 

[drp]

The way I see it is:

Microsoft - pay less, get crap, maybe shiny crap. Well-supported crap.
You buy a PC, it's created by different people, assembled, given some company's badge, with someone else's OS, comes loaded with crapware, get tech support from India, have to download drivers for everything, stuff stops working for no reason, download more stuff to get other stuff working right. Kind of a mish-mosh held together with duct tape.

However, people support this. I'm always going to have a PC desktop, for stuff like gaming, because PC is what people support.

Apple - pay more, get what all companies should strive to produce.
Parts made by people, assembled by one company, with their OS, with support for their products seamlessly. Clean, simple. Slightly overpriced, but with it you get a quality guarantee and support from people in America you can go and see with your own two eyes.

If I ever get a laptop, I'm getting a macbook.



Now, the bigger question. Do we really need a PC vs. Mac flame-thread on our forums?

more like

mac - buy a cookie cutter handicapped proprietary machine that is only good for specific things.

pc - buy or build your own computer that is compatible with 95% of the worlds software and can be modified and upgraded for years without having to spend the money to buy a whole new system.

also

Hey PC, what'cha doing there

Playing a video game

oh yea, which one?

All of them...

 

[SiniStarR]

face it as gamers were gonna say OMFG MAC SUX followed by RAGE.

While the typical consumer who knows either little about a computer or just knows how to use it doesn't really care as long as it works and runs fast enough. We say OMFG BUILD A COMPUTER, but how many people really know how to do that?

As for people who have both, good for you!

 

[eyefork]

What mouse do Macs ship with nowadays? The huge plastic one-button mouse was awful, and the mighty mouse was an improvement with its secondary click, but the entire mouse is still a button. I know you can use a third-party mouse, but you'd think they would be able to design a mouse themselves that doesn't resemble something created by a baby slapping a piece of a paper with a crayon.




Ok so maybe it's not that extreme, but still :|

 

[The Political Gamer]

What mouse do Macs ship with nowadays? The huge plastic one-button mouse was awful, and the mighty mouse was an improvement with its secondary click, but the entire mouse is still a button. I know you can use a third-party mouse, but you'd think they would be able to design a mouse themselves that doesn't resemble something created by a baby slapping a piece of a paper with a crayon.




Ok so maybe it's not that extreme, but still :|

The new mac mice have 2 buttons but the right click only works 75% of the time. :/

 

[eyefork]

Yeah, from what I can tell they still ship with a Mighty Mouse and that's what you're referring to. After spending the past few years using Macs in some design classes, I never want to use one of their mice again. Working on large documents in Photoshop with them is a pain in the ass if you plan on doing a lot of clicking and dragging. If you run out of room on the mousepad and need to pick up the mouse while clicking, it's impossible. Clicking and dragging in general is horrible with the mighty mouse.

Also, lol at their mighty mouse page: "Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today’s multi-button world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do? Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a clunky right button." Who needs usability? They go on to justify their use of AA batteries in the wireless version by calling charging docks bulky.

/mouse rage

 

[Maxer]

What mouse do Macs ship with nowadays?

The mighty mouse is the worst mouse i have ever used, and probable the worst mouse ever created by mankind. The trackball always got dirty and screwed up. I replaced mine 2 times before I gave up and started to use a 3rd party mouse.