Well no, there's always a few people here and there who will hate whatever you did and try to convert the most people in thinking the same way they do. It's not that much of a problem, there's room for everyone's opinions.
I Hate Mountains!
- Thread starter Grim Tuesday
- Start date
This campaign made L4D fresh enough for me to enjoy playing it for another hour. That's good.
There was a lot of nice little "detail stories" as well.
One thing that I think could be improved on, is clearer objectives. I knew that I had to get to the top of the manor, but I didn't know what I had to do there until I got there.
I knew I had to signal for rescue but I didn't know in what form and where it was coming. I was waiting at the helipad I saw from the building with the minigun, and then the seaplane came out of nowhere.
It's good, but it could use some work on flow and direction.
There was a lot of nice little "detail stories" as well.
One thing that I think could be improved on, is clearer objectives. I knew that I had to get to the top of the manor, but I didn't know what I had to do there until I got there.
I knew I had to signal for rescue but I didn't know in what form and where it was coming. I was waiting at the helipad I saw from the building with the minigun, and then the seaplane came out of nowhere.
It's good, but it could use some work on flow and direction.
- Sep 28, 2009
- 3,075
- 2,778
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice feature. But maybe you could do even more with it so that players don't get lost on their first run.
eyefork
L3: Member
- Oct 27, 2008
- 130
- 186
I thought it was mostly okay. Looks very nice. There is a lot of times where the paths can get confusing (I ended up circling back once). At the manor, I thought the helicopter took off because I hadn't reached it in time. I was too busy killing infected to see it crash after it took off, so I ended up killing myself (and realizing what had happened the second time around). Then I got stuck on the helicopter blades.
While I think the safehouse signs on the paths are definitely necessary to lessen confusion, the same one got a bit tired. Maybe creating some stage-specific signage would help ease the repetitiveness (Newell Manor→ or something).
And describing confusing layouts as maps that "don't hold your hand" or "actually require brainpower" is just silly.
While I think the safehouse signs on the paths are definitely necessary to lessen confusion, the same one got a bit tired. Maybe creating some stage-specific signage would help ease the repetitiveness (Newell Manor→ or something).
And describing confusing layouts as maps that "don't hold your hand" or "actually require brainpower" is just silly.
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L4D2 > L4D
I say this because of the static gameplay.
BUT: the characters in L4D1 (Hands down) were better in every aspect.
I say this because of the static gameplay.
BUT: the characters in L4D1 (Hands down) were better in every aspect.
I'm confused why your forums even have a "Feedback and Criticisms" section. So far you've vehemently argued with all the criticism you've gotten - you even followed us back to the TF2M forums to continue berating us about it. If that's your reaction to criticism, then don't make a section in your forums asking for it.
I mean if you just said right from the outset you weren't planning on iterating or improving the campaign, then Icarus and I wouldn't have bothered posting. It's not like we're trying to make you feel bad, or convince as many people as we can to agree with us. We just thought by being as critical as possible, it would help you improve.
I mean if you just said right from the outset you weren't planning on iterating or improving the campaign, then Icarus and I wouldn't have bothered posting. It's not like we're trying to make you feel bad, or convince as many people as we can to agree with us. We just thought by being as critical as possible, it would help you improve.
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Nyk: how many internal playtesters did you have during the course of development? (rough number)
The problem isn't so much that the campaign is below valve standard, but that there were some bad design choices. It would have been a far better campaign had they shortened it, but made it clearer to navigate.
Trotim
aa
- Jul 14, 2009
- 1,195
- 1,045
Alright, played it with Selentic and two other friends.
I pretty much agree, it's good enough to make you play L4D1 again (I don't have L4D2 and was waiting for this) and the detailing and atmosphere are probably better than most of the Valve campaigns. The layout really is lacking though, the worst stage of the 5 was probably the second one, the Manor.
The sign props/overlays were used a lot and even then it was hard to tell where to go - the fact you deemed so many arrows necessary in the first place should've tipped you off that the layout might be a bit too complex. The use of lighting can be improved too and I found it pretty funny that the underground tunnels were pretty much the brightest and clearest stage.
On top of that, miniguns. What were you thinking? Did we just do it wrong or why were there like ten miniguns that were absolutely useless to us?
Just don't get any of us wrong - this is THE best L4D campaign out so far and will probably also remain that way thanks to L4D2. The amount of time and work you three guys spent on this in your free time is amazing and really payed off, it's just that we all can see that your mapping expertise is so good the campaign doesn't truly do it justice.
I pretty much agree, it's good enough to make you play L4D1 again (I don't have L4D2 and was waiting for this) and the detailing and atmosphere are probably better than most of the Valve campaigns. The layout really is lacking though, the worst stage of the 5 was probably the second one, the Manor.
The sign props/overlays were used a lot and even then it was hard to tell where to go - the fact you deemed so many arrows necessary in the first place should've tipped you off that the layout might be a bit too complex. The use of lighting can be improved too and I found it pretty funny that the underground tunnels were pretty much the brightest and clearest stage.
On top of that, miniguns. What were you thinking? Did we just do it wrong or why were there like ten miniguns that were absolutely useless to us?
Just don't get any of us wrong - this is THE best L4D campaign out so far and will probably also remain that way thanks to L4D2. The amount of time and work you three guys spent on this in your free time is amazing and really payed off, it's just that we all can see that your mapping expertise is so good the campaign doesn't truly do it justice.
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Zwiffle
L6: Sharp Member
- Jun 24, 2008
- 269
- 161
Just ran through it last night with friends on Normal and we only got lost once near the safe house of the crypts level. It could have been because we were playing on normal mode, but the maps just flew by. They didn't seem long at all. I do remember thinking that L4D2's normal mode was similar in difficulty to L4D's Advanced difficulty when it first came out, so it could also just have felt easier after spending half a year with L4D2.
I was more concerned about some bugs than the level layout, like if you walk near the chopper in the Manor level you somehow 'fall off' it and get stranded hanging off the side. Kind of weird. But yeah the maps were gorgeous, the finale was pretty cool, kind of a breeze when you just camp on the helipad. In the end it took 44 minutes to get through which I guess is a good time for normal mode, but it totally didn't seem like it. Would love to go through again in L4D2.
I was more concerned about some bugs than the level layout, like if you walk near the chopper in the Manor level you somehow 'fall off' it and get stranded hanging off the side. Kind of weird. But yeah the maps were gorgeous, the finale was pretty cool, kind of a breeze when you just camp on the helipad. In the end it took 44 minutes to get through which I guess is a good time for normal mode, but it totally didn't seem like it. Would love to go through again in L4D2.
Randdalf
aa
- Feb 14, 2008
- 1,051
- 932
Detailing is amazing, incredibly rich detail which makes everything that bit more realistic (and works well in tandem with the darkness). Although, I did find the darkness incredibly annoying whilst navigating the manor, being boomed on, and chased by a horde to a helicopter I didn't know was there until I could hear the radio (ironically, I think the manor segment would work brilliantly with L4D2's gauntlet system). If there was one other thing I didn't like, it was the wall scribblings. There were far too many wall scribblings, they were in nearly every room I came across, and I just couldn't be bothered to read them (which is part of the joy of the wall scribblings in L4Ds), I had "wall scribble fatigue".
Completed it today with my friend (after many attempts to get on a dedicated server that DIDN'T have auto-aim laser guns that set zombies on fire with 3 Hunters a second) and I loved it. Detail was excellent and actually seemed much like we were in an official map, however it was quite annoying at the advancement parts with the crane and such, as they lagged severely on both of us. Also, using the same sign to guide us was quite plain, but it got better as they progressively disappeared into the final chapters.
I would also agree with this, there were A LOT of scribbles, EVERYWHERE.
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TheBladeRoden
L420: High Member
- Oct 26, 2007
- 491
- 168
Bermuda Cake
L9: Fashionable Member
- Feb 20, 2009
- 679
- 480
Played it yesterday with a friend, and I've gotta say, I loved it! I did find the manor a bit hard to navigate on the way down, but apart from that, it was great.
To Icarus: I now see why the authors were kind of avoiding your points... basically it really is a matter of opinion, some think that the navigation is frustrating, while I found that it added to the survival horror that left 4 dead does so well. That being said, there were quite a lot of pointless buildings that really lead me off path, most of them coming from alternate routes that had been blocked at the start of the level.
Great fun
Lots of choice in the finale and no camping spots that I could find
Amazing detailing imo
Great moments of panic when a horde comes and you have to quickly find the best place to hold out for.
I can see this keeping me interested for a while.
To Icarus: I now see why the authors were kind of avoiding your points... basically it really is a matter of opinion, some think that the navigation is frustrating, while I found that it added to the survival horror that left 4 dead does so well. That being said, there were quite a lot of pointless buildings that really lead me off path, most of them coming from alternate routes that had been blocked at the start of the level.
Great fun
Lots of choice in the finale and no camping spots that I could find
Amazing detailing imo
Great moments of panic when a horde comes and you have to quickly find the best place to hold out for.
I can see this keeping me interested for a while.