Thanks a ton! Great, relevant feedback. Been a
while since I've received some of that from tf2m. I'll go through it one by one:
I kinda want there to be more height variation on mid. Maybe
move this building up 64 units or so? There was a lot of comments in the last playtest that the map seemed to be hard to push out of, and I think that might have to do with the map's overall flatness. It could also be because of a million other things, so maybe not.
Flatness might be an issue. Comparing it to other 5cp mids (which I did a lot of in the development
process, trust me); the mid is somewhat flat, I agree. The high ground exists in a nice spotand is definitely a great addition to the layout but yeah, some additional variation that wouldn't be annoying to navigate would be interesting.
Raising that building might be in the question, although it would make it troublesome to jump up to when you're walking on the point...
...unless I raised the point along with it. Unsure if that's a great idea, to raise both the point and the building to the same degree. Might not actually fix anything and just serve to make mid more complex.
About the "hard to push out of" in last playtest, those type of things happen really often in 5CP pub, especially when the two teams are evenly matched (as they were in the test). Process and snake are good examples of this, specially process, that one doesn't perform well in pubs imo. Guess that could be something I aim for with this map but I dunno.
Now, on to 2nd. It's really open! You have to leave from any advantage the map gives you to get to the point. As a result, it seems to pretty much be a matter of who has more dudes to capture the point. If there was any kind of cover or height advantage near the point (not necessarily directly by it), it's less of a numbers game and more of a tactics game (maybe you want it to be a numbers game?).
Yeah that was one of the main things I talked about with Sel regarding his older versions. The point is really flat and open and I totally agree. I did add a highground/cover to the upper corner of the arena near 'granary ramp room', but I see what you're saying. 5CP is primarily a numbers game, but it wouldn't hurt to put a little tiny bit more around the point. Not too much though, because the second point was definitely the most back-and-forth of any point in the gametests, so I don't want to support camping or turtling.
This sightline was pretty easy to spam as soldier to get easy damage.
Maybe make this a shutter? I don't really feel confident in this feedback, but I'm leaving it anyways.
Yeah same with this area. Was an issue I wasn't a fan of in previous versions and that new high ground/cover served to alleviate that position a little, didn't do much I guess. I'll have to figure out something.
Well now it's beta so it's 110% relevant. Blame Sel for that and blame me for the redesign of that room that's coming
As someone who doesn't really do a lot of 5cp stuff, I really dig the final point design. The layout of the rooms is a lot of fun, and reminds me a bit of Quake dm maps. The scaling is perfect.
To other people reading this:
Look at how much mileage you can get out of a single paint patch overlay. Like, damn. Maybe other maps do the same thing and I've just never noticed, but this is such a great way to get cheap detail.
Blame Sel for these too/two (he made a pretty damn good last)
I already mentioned it in the WIP thread, but the lighting is flat. You can probably keep the environment lighting the same as long as you brighten stuff up with spotlights. I've got pretty shitty eyesight, and I found a lot of the map kinda hard to read during yesterday's test. Don't be afraid to use lights at around 2000 brightness.
Don't fret, we're fixing that up sometime this week for a beta release sometime down the line. Good to bring it up though, figured all anyone would say to those screenshots was "oh wow edit your prop fade distance you pleb" but it's good someone actually took something relevant out of them.
Props to you.