CP Harbour [Deleted]

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Lyra, Apr 4, 2012.

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  1. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    A map by Sel and Phi.

    Thanks to:
    Trotim for doing helpful things.
    ABS for his gametype library.
    Ravidge for his Lighting library.
    Scorpio for extensive and incredibly valuable feedback, and pug running.
    Waxpax for running pugs and feedback too.
    Tf2M for providing lots of testing.
    JoshuaC for his stair models
    Blarps-chan the anime dog for pro gamer feedback stuff
    Rayscutie the pro gamer for more pro gamer feedback stuff
    Carl Sagan
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
  2. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    Consider adding 3rd path to mid or modifying exsisting routes.
    Right now there is two ways to mid, the far left one leaves you easy pick for snipers from mid and other one pretty much forces you jumping into deathtrap (Unless you are scout or rocket jump) that takes you to pretty much same spot path the left route does. Mid also caps bit too long, so once team finally manages to push to mid point, enemy team can already get back to mid before it is capped.
     
  3. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    There's a connection between the 2nd path and the boat now. (look at the first ss)

    I altered the spawn times, I believe that was the bigger issue preventing mid from being recapped, but only more testing will tell.
     
  4. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Theres some interesting looking geometry going here. I'm interested to see where this goes. :)
     
  5. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    cool mapm lighting feels a bit not-very-well-lit in some places, but im just happy a boat is in a decent tf2 map
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  6. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    So here are my recollections: First of all, even though the mid point had both team colors plainly represented and the forward points had just the one, I kept mistaking my team's forward point (I never even made it to the other one) for a mid and the midpoint for a forward point, for some reason. They just had a certain feel to them that I can't put into words.

    Secondly, I remember dying an awful lot in the corridors between those two points. From what I can recall (I admit I don't pay much attention to the specific dynamics of the battles when I play so take this with a grain of salt), 5CP maps tend to feature a lot of fighting in the area around the actual point, but here we would always run into the enemy team in those corridors and get thinned down to one or two people at most by the time we were able to make it to mid.
     
  7. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    Taking a quick look through your map. I'll just be making some notes as I go.

    1) Spawn. The size and shape seems fine for a badlands style last. But I feel like you spawn WAY too close to the door and that the ressupply cabinet is way too close as well. For this style spawn players should spawn some distance from the door and resupply should involve you having to actually walk some distance into spawn. Otherwise, heavy can just chill at the door and strafe left to get 250+ health back in an instant. Likewise, a soldier can run gunboats and bounce himself out the door and be halfway to second before the round even starts.

    2) The last point is in a slightly recessed area (8 units or so). You should avoid those sorts of recessions and dips. The lips of that area will catch rockets and make spam going into and out of that area incredibly hard to predict. You'll think your slamming a rocket into someone for 100 damage but all the splash will get caught by the lip. The same is true for the hazard triangle brushes, and those will actually clip people if they try to jump while next to it (they'll jump straight up instead of going forward or backward). Especially for alphas you should focus on extremely flat combat spaces and such, instead of having a bunch of smaller recesses.

    3) Only two exits onto last? Seems Like a pretty bad idea. As your going for a badlands style last, check the number of exits for that map (4) and maybe come up with something similar. You have that area on the right side (for defense) that seems perfectly reasonable for another path in.

    4) The glass windows pushing into last are going to screw you in terms of optimization and the sight line to second. ALso, makes pushing and defending last pretty annoying. They can see everything your planning to do without any real penalty. Instead of some uncertainty in terms of how combat will play out at last, the attacking team knows everything well ahead of time. By comparison, the badlands upper area with the window is much smaller and you can be attacked from both right and left, meaning that if you want to use the window to peak, you have to put yourself in harms way.

    5) Second seems okay. Sniper sightlines are defintely a worry, that balcony will be pretty powerful for shutting down pushes. The water drop down thing: not sure thats a good idea. The three maps that i can think of with it (freight, well, and waste) that pathway almost always ends up useless. I would consider making it possible to both enter and exit the water entrance. Again, as with last number of exits from either mid or last is a bit worrying. At least three from both directions is preferable IMO.

    6) Mid seems like the coolest area in the whole map. From a 6v6 perspective I could really see that layout working out. However, I don't like the lower area much at all. It doesn't really go anywhere, and the one place that it does go, would actually be easier to reach via traditional means. When I came up the ramp from below I assumed I would be coming to the middle point itself, but I ended up behind it. I think one much easier and simpler version of what your trying to do would be to have the lower entrance go across to the other teams side, so you could push a scout behind to flank, rather than just ending up on your own side of the point.

    7) Death pit surf ramp thing beneath the point is very strange. I get punished for getting stuck in some weird lip/culvert thing? Just make a flat intersection between the concrete floor and mid platform.

    8) Arrow signs seem a bit odd. Just use a regular square/rectangle brush instead. At this early state in development, the jagged geometry will only confuse people visually.

    9) Extend your skybox walls! Do it now, don't use the excuse that its early in development. If you figure out the right distances between in game geometry and where the skybox will be, it will be much easier to work the map at a later point. I'm thinking primarily of the wall to the left of the second point (defending). If you jump up near that wall you can see into the forward ressupply. You might not be able to see players (I wasn't able to check) but its very disconcerting to be able to see that.
     
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  8. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    On it!

    ILU<3
     
  9. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    Updated to a3, details in the first post!

    E: Updated to a4, details in the first post!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  10. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Best map I've played in a while. Keep up the good work!

    If anything, the travel times between second and mid felt a little long, but that could have been me. It just feels like a lot of space at mid is empty and could be shrunk down.
     
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  11. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    A lot of the routes feel weird to me, like I'm always going the wrong way even when I'm not. But maybe that's just a side effect of everything being dev textured; detailing can do a lot to make a map feel more accommodating.
     
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  12. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    I've been feeling the same way, specifically about the areas that the third spawns put players out into, it does seem pretty big and open, so I'll see what I can do about tightening that area up.

    I dunno. It usually takes me about 5 rounds or so on any given custom to get a handle on its layout, so it might just be the same thing here, but yes, I hope it'll be easier to learn when it's detailed.
     
  13. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    The area when you are coming out of the the 2nd point, (If facing the upper entrance to final, it is the route on the left) The one thing that bugs me about that, is that I have to basically make an S shape to get out, and it is kind of long. It does its job, but personally I just get really annoyed when I have to make a lot of corners in a short amount of time.
     
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  14. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    I agree, I'm going to redesign that area later.

    But before I do any of that, I'm going to need someone to help me solve this map file mismatch issue, because I am at a total loss why this is happening.

    forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=599

    There is literally no reason I can think of why the map files would magically become different between the redirect and server, yet somehow it has happened both here and elsewhere. The only differences between this build and the previous one is some raised ground, a few blocks, and some removed ammo containers.

    Help please!
     
  15. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    Do you have any ents in the void? (AKA outside the map)
    I had this issue on my a/d cp map and all i did was move ent that was left outside the map during layout changes and it fixed it.
     
  16. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    Nope. I tried Cordon compiling after Okrag suggested I try this, and we ran it on the server with the same result. I am completely at a loss as to what I could have done that could have caused this.
     
  17. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    We had this issue once.

    I think the solution was to remove all the entities from a map (as in, you can just visgroup disable point and brush entities), highlight and copy the worldbrushes/func_details/props into a NEW file. Then replace all the entities again (not copy/pasting). And name this version something else.


    It might also have something to do with compiling and the .vmf, but I'm not sure. Try that first.
     
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  18. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Layout-wise, i really enjoyed the version we played. 2nd was very hard to attack. I think this might be because it has only a few routes to it? I couldn't actually see why it was so hard to take, maybe you just need to adjust cap times.

    Cap times could afford to be a bit shorter, perhaps. the final points are pretty badlands-ish, and maybe need a time reduction.
     
  19. Lyra

    Lyra L1: Registered

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    Hopefully the new paths rectify 2nd's defensibilty, as for last, up until now we've been playing a version that incorrectly changes the defender's spawn time to 6s, instead of the 14 they're supposed to have, hopefully now that that's working properly it'll work out.

    Updated to A5, details in first post.
     
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  20. Sel

    Sel Banned

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    Today's test turned out pretty alright. There were a few complaints about it being difficult to push back, but in the context of this test you should ignore them, since that was the fault of a team being distinctly superior to the other one, not so much that it was a roll, but that they were faced with a battle they didn't really have a chance at. Either way, when the teams were slightly unfair they won at a reasonable rate, and when they were stacked they rolled, which is totally reasonable.

    As for second, I figure it's too early to tell, but I will note that you appear to have inadvertently broke the jump path onto the roof of that building under the deck. It might also be a good idea to put a medium health & ammo in this room.

    http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/1/3/2/6/4/2012-04-09_00004.jpg

    Seems like a pretty logical spot for one imo.
     
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