Gumption

[Geal]

You're using a 256 units high wall philosphy which needs to be braught down to 192 in accessible areas for optimal gameplay experiences. The result was long and winding stairs that took up entire rooms which were also horrible to climb, along with excessive platform heights that overpowered soldiers, demo's and snipers and also caused fights to occur at unnaturally long distances.

The intel courtyard needs to be split up, even in 2 if you can. It's too big and the far right "hut" is a very powerful sentry position. I managed to get some very nice flanks on it, but spawning players just came and killed me, usually before i could deal a killing blow. If it did go down, it would be back up by the time i spawned or made my way back across the map.

The central courtyard is kinda fun, i would have said remove the mound in the very middle, bring down the platforms to a more reasonable height and make them smaller so that they resemble a battlements.

My fps was generally horrible in this map, is it optimised? Because it didn't feel that way.

summary of to do:

• make intelligence courtyard smaller and/or cut it into 2 areas (which would prevent spawned players jumping immediately onto the intel)
• central courtyard is good size, but reduce the height of platoforms on the sides.
• remove the hill in the middle but provide cover in the form of props.

Popular sniper spot.

You might consider not letting players flank immediately across from either far flank and cut off the sniper line in the process. It's pretty difficult to defend from any area that's not the huge intelligence courtyard or the middle. It wasn't so much tactical decision making involved in assaulting a base but testing one flank for weaknesses and then moving on to the other 2 consecutively until you found the flank not defended properly. Which might sound fun/workable but plays worse than it sounds simply because it's just one giant wall with 2 exits and a platform.

It's also not entirely clear where the capture area was, i braught the flag back and only happened to rocket jump right into the intel carraige thing, otherwise i might have been wondering around for a seperate cap area for a while. It needs to be more obvious that the carraige is also the cap area (hazard strips and the capture zone decals are good enough hints).

Yeah, I'll probably bring down the upper area.

Just curious, when you suggest splitting the courtyard into 2, do you mean horizontally, vertically, or in some other way? Just adding a wall or something so spawning players have farther to go to reach the intel? Also the hut, maybe it is a little more powerful than I thought it was originally, but aren't sentries generally supposed to be too difficult for a single player to take out? If you were having trouble taking it out alone, shouldn't you have gotten some more teammates to help you push?

Thanks for your suggestions on the center area. Just curious, why do you suggest removing the hill? I remember a sentry going up there right near the end, but otherwise I don't remember it being too much of a problem. Maybe I just didn't notice something.

Also I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean about the sniper/flanking issue? You mean cutting off the two upper paths into the base, correct? If so, it's an interesting idea I hadn't thought of before. After thinking about it a bit, wouldn't it create even bigger chokepoints in the rooms, since only one sentry could cover pretty much everything. Although I suppose a correctly placed one already could now, but would probably be taken down quickly. It would also make the upper decks inside pretty much only there for defense, which probably wouldn't be a bad thing.

Sorry for all the questions, just making sure I know what you're suggesting and where you're coming from.

 

[grazr]

Yeah, I'll probably bring down the upper area.

Just curious, when you suggest splitting the courtyard into 2, do you mean horizontally, vertically, or in some other way? Just adding a wall or something so spawning players have farther to go to reach the intel? Also the hut, maybe it is a little more powerful than I thought it was originally, but aren't sentries generally supposed to be too difficult for a single player to take out? If you were having trouble taking it out alone, shouldn't you have gotten some more teammates to help you push?

I mean in an effort to seperate the spawn area from the intel area. There needs to be a wall or buffer to prevent players from immediately spotting and shooting at attackers assaulting the intelligence position. Defence was too easy; although that's not to say the intel was impossible to cap, because both teams did it several times, just that playing defence was significantly easier because of the ways to counter attack assaults into the courtyard and have sentry guns delay attacks long enough to respawn and try again if you happened to die early in that assault. Which means even small groups of players were not likely to successfully grab the intel because of the immediate reinforcements. Grabbing the intel successfully was a matter of waiting for the majority of players to make a push for your intel so that the team would be out of position, when assaulting should atleast have a good chance of success regardless of the force before you.

As for the sentry spot, sentries are usually really easy to take out if there arn't any defending players. Even 3 sentries camped out in 2fort's intel room with engineers banging away on them are easy to take out by a single player who knows what he's doing. It had all the things an engi could want (which is too much), a tight spot to fit all his gear, only one way to get at that gear, plenty of metal to set up quickly, it looked back on the intel which meant players couldn't shoot at it without fully exposing themselves and the open-ness of the courtyard allowing for any defending player to see the assault and respond in aid immediately. It was the single most important position in your map that defined the success of a team. There should be more viable options open to players.

Thanks for your suggestions on the center area. Just curious, why do you suggest removing the hill? I remember a sentry going up there right near the end, but otherwise I don't remember it being too much of a problem. Maybe I just didn't notice something.

The hill was an awkward piece of your envirnment that noone really liked to cross (it was a death trap) and was just as ugly to look at. It almost seemed as if it only existed so shorten the ramps onto the platforms above (regardless of whether or not that's true). I just think that for how it's being used there are better ways to go about it, not to mention providing an oppotunity to have something that destinguishes your map from others here.

Also I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean about the sniper/flanking issue? You mean cutting off the two upper paths into the base, correct? If so, it's an interesting idea I hadn't thought of before. After thinking about it a bit, wouldn't it create even bigger chokepoints in the rooms, since only one sentry could cover pretty much everything. Although I suppose a correctly placed one already could now, but would probably be taken down quickly. It would also make the upper decks inside pretty much only there for defense, which probably wouldn't be a bad thing.

Sorry for all the questions, just making sure I know what you're suggesting and where you're coming from.

One sentry wouldn't be able to cover everything because you have 2 flanks, of which 2 paths converge into both chokepoints. There would need to be atleast 2 sentries to cover the chokes which is already the case now. What i proposed was to prevent players, atleast on the high ground, to be able to freely switch between harassing one flank and then the other because there's no easy way to counter attack unless they give up the 256 units of height advantage at the opposite side of the room that overlooks the doorway. The chokepoints work both ways and attackers have the height advantage which also means they don't like to give it up in order to attempt to capture the intel. They just kinda wait on their platforms picking off stragglers moving out of the courtyard and into the buildings

 

[fubarFX]

something I noticed during gameday
you really need to clip that pipe. I wouldn't usually be so picky about a pipe but this one literally is a new path for scouts

 

[Geal]

I decided to extend the spawn buildings, to slow down those coming out of spawn. Not the most graceful solution, but it should work.

I pretty much demolished the hill in the center. I added some box cover near the edges as well. I lowered parts of the upper decks, as well as limiting the area of movement. I also added a fence along the upper edge to prevent players up there from firing down to the middle. I'm not entirely sure what to stick in the middle, so I just threw down a rock as a placeholder. :blushing:

something I noticed during gameday
you really need to clip that pipe. I wouldn't usually be so picky about a pipe but this one literally is a new path for scouts

Yeah, I actually meant to clip that off for the last version, but I guess it just slipped by unnoticed. Thanks for reminding me!

 

[grazr]

Ah, good job putting the fence on the battlements, when players walk through an area you want to reduce the potential for anxiety (a bad experience to have playing an FPS). This is done by reducing the potential directions an attack can come from. Having wide open ledges all around made it undesirable to move through the centre at all.

 

[Geal]

Bump for B2! Submitted to contest! Changes:

-Finished detailing.
-Extended length of spawn buildings.
-Added second, smaller spawn building to eliminate 180 turn.
-Lowered second level in buildings.
-Closed upper side routes to buildings.
-Lowered mound in center.
-Added prop cover in center.
-Reduced movement area, lowered parts of, and added fences to middle battlements.
-Removed ammo and health in intel shack.
-Other minor detailing and fade distance adjusting.

 

[lana]

Clip the spigot!

 

[Psy]

One exit out of spawn is terrible and you should definitely add another!

 

[lana]

One exit out of spawn is terrible and you should definitely add another!

He has two, but they're very separated.

 

[Rikka]

Originally there were two exits in the same building, but one was an annoying 180 turn to the battlefield. What you have now doesn't really work though. You can't choose between then, and one is nearly always better to get (I think, not sure on travel times). With 2fort both exits get you to the battlements the same, and have quick access paths downstairs. I think you should rework the spawn so you can have two exits without a 180 turn.

A problem I've been seeing with ubers attacking the intel area is that they always have to pop early. Like within the interior early. This is especially bad with a defensive team, as you have no team to deal with both the players and the sentries.

 

[Geal]

Clip the spigot!

Oh god I knew there'd be something I forgot to clip.

Originally there were two exits in the same building, but one was an annoying 180 turn to the battlefield. What you have now doesn't really work though. You can't choose between then, and one is nearly always better to get (I think, not sure on travel times). With 2fort both exits get you to the battlements the same, and have quick access paths downstairs. I think you should rework the spawn so you can have two exits without a 180 turn.

A problem I've been seeing with ubers attacking the intel area is that they always have to pop early. Like within the interior early. This is especially bad with a defensive team, as you have no team to deal with both the players and the sentries.

Yeah, I'll probably wind up reworking the spawns. I increased the length of the buildings to try and slow down those coming from spawn from jumping straight on the intel, since attackers have a difficult time as-is getting to it. I kinda threw the current spawns together in a hurry to meet the deadline, so I'm taking some time throwing around various ideas for them.

As for the ubers, I've been noticing that too. I'm thinking it may be caused by there not being those gates, thus forcing players into the fight earlier. Most people stick to the left doorway, so fights usually break out in there before they reach the intel courtyard. I'm wondering how to encourage attackers to use both doors equally, since there isn't nearly as much room to fight in the right doorway area, so maybe it'd be easier to push with an uber from there. Most sentry spots seem to focus around that side of the courtyard anyway.

 

[lucky]

My wildest dreams! They came true!

 

[A Boojum Snark]

Again, sorry for the delay.

• [00] The trees and rocks should have a fade distance set on them, since for some reason they are rendering on the other side of the map.
• [01] The AP up here should be removed, there isn't enough in the loft to warrant it's use, and it has the side effect of causing props outside to be rendered when they are behind it.
• [03] The ramp didn't get func_detail'd.
• [05] I would suggest an AP in the hallway here.

Overall it feels a little heavy on the props. Stuff is just scattered all around, especially in the middle, with not a lot of purpose. Some areas have good brush detail and texturing, others are quite bland. Fences surrounding the yard areas feel odd and confining.
• [04] The fences on the buildings are unsightly and should really be removed. You could put a railing on the low building to the right to indicate it is inaccessible, but the tall buildings don't need anything.

 

[Fredrik]

All my wildest dreams just went true!