Gumption

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Geal, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Submission for the competitive ctf contest. B2 released, which is the version submitted to the contest!
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  2. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    That makeshift boxcar looks.... weird, especially with the side opened, and not the doors on the end. Unless you're thinking of having the one wall looking like it's been torn out
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  3. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Yeah, was planning on making it look more realistic once I start detailing. Right now i'm replacing dev textures along with other changes.
     
  4. Pc_Madness

    Pc_Madness L4: Comfortable Member

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    You should probably figure out key areas of your map before you start building it. It doesn't seem like you knew what to do with the middle area, so you just built some corridors that wrap around it. I think the rest of the issues you knew from the test. :) Good luck!
     
  5. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    I planned for the middle area to be the main battle area where teams would clash most, then put in the alternate paths as a way for ambush classes to get around the middle chokepoint. When I decided to move the action up to the roofs it made the middle area kind of pointless.

    I'm thinking I'll just close off all the roofs. It seemed people were having fun jumping around from roof to roof, but full rooftop access wasn't really what I was going for originally. My main idea was to have the two huge buildings on each side, with one area of roof you could rocket/sticky jump over to get quick access to the middle area. I'm worried that the ground play isn't interesting enough to keep the map fun and entertaining if I cut off most/all roof access, but that might just be me over-worrying about things.

    Right now I'm deciding which roofs the players should still be able to reach, Along with finishing textures. It seems people wanted the map scaled down a bit, and I guess that without roof access that'd be warranted - unless I use the space/size to make the ground more interesting? I guess I'll just have to see what happens.

    Any other suggestions/comments on the map?
     
  6. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    http://i49.tinypic.com/bgdx0g.png

    a2 on the way soon, now with 100% less roofs! I figure I'll just run a test with no roof access, and see how people like it. If they don't, I'll find a happy medium.
     
  7. Pc_Madness

    Pc_Madness L4: Comfortable Member

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    I wouldn't worry about texturing until your happy with the layout. Personally I think textured maps that haven't had any detail added (decals / windows / door frames / wall..frame..things) makes the map look worse. Dev textures is kind of a "I know its ugly, but I don't care so shush!" :p But anyway, the other thing you need to watch is the space around the cap areas, it was very opened and everything just kinda felt thrown about. Why not turn it into some kind of train station like on Viaduct? I think I remember people commenting about it being abit of a pain to jump over the flat bed train cars, so some platforms on one side might help? :)

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  8. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Bump for A2 whynot.

    Changes:
    -Cut off all roof access.
    -Edited some health pack/ammo size and placement.
    -Added extra signs to help direction.
    -Added ramps to make getting over some of the trains easier.
    -Slightly improved performance.
     
  9. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Welp A3 is out figure I'll bump the thread.

    -Opened up detail sections in the center area, increasing center area size dramatically.
    -Consequently, cut off side path to the intel area.
    -Shortened length of spawn room building.
    -Added two more paths in the main buildings for getting to the upper level
    -Further editted health/ammo sizes.
    -Removed vents and stairs leading up to them.
    -Reduced spawn wave times.
     
  10. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    I liked the changes. The middle still feels a bit off, and the angles are kind of hard to get down with the detail area being partially see through. Makes for good cover, but hard to judge at a distance. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    Overall looks and plays well. Definitely progressed from last version.
     
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  11. Sel

    Sel Banned

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    It's a bunch of box rooms connected by more box rooms, then a giant open area for the flag room(?).

    I'm kinda tempted to suggest you re-arrange the train, so that the car with the flag in it can be made 2 way somehow, since as it is now, it's very difficult for an uber push to get the flag and get out because of stickies being placed on the car.

    Aside from that, playerclip the wooden beam ramps, especially at the top, I got stuck on those more than once during todays test.
     
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  12. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    I personally enjoy this map alot, though many of the rooms feel empty and seem out of place by that virtue.
     
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  13. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Right now I'm working on making the areas a bit more interesting. The previous versions had issues with not being particularly fun (first version is arguable about that though I guess) so now that the maps seems generally enjoyable, I'll work on making the rooms and outside areas a bit more fun to just be in.

    Right now I'm lowering the two platforms in the middle area, and adding a bridge between them. I'll have a pillar down the center of the bridge to break up the wide open-ness of the middle area, and so players can run up onto the bridge from below. I'll also be adding in some windows that overlook the intel area, so hopefully it'll make taking out the rock sentry a little easier.

    Still trying to decide exactly what to do with the room on the far right (coming in from intel area), I suppose I could just make it a generic storage room but that doesn't seem like a particularly creative solution. Any suggestions?
     
  14. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    [​IMG]
    Decided to cut away the back of the intel train car. The back side doesn't have a ramp like the front, so non-scout classes can't jump directly in there. If you're clever you can work your way in there from a side cart though. If this winds up making the intel too difficult to defend I might wind up reverting it back to the old version.

    [​IMG]
    I also did this to the middle. The hill is just tall enough to block sniper lines through the middle as well. Oh, and I playerclipped all the wooden beams so you can't get stuck on them anymore.

    To do list:
    -Considering various ways to add displacements to the intel area without completely changing it. How it is right now I think it's difficult to get the intel but still fun and not too easy to completely lock down, so I'm kind of hesitant about majorly changing it. That and I don't have any major ideas for interesting changes.
    -Still have mapper's block for that far right room.

    When I've come to some decisions on these points, I'll release A4. I think for the most part the gameplay has settled down a bit, so I'll begin detailing and preparing a B1. Also It's starting to dawn on me that we've only got a little over a month to finish contest entries, so I need to get my butt in gear.

    As always, any and all comments are appreciated.
     
  15. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Really wish I could have made it to game day, the demo was interesting. I was surprised to see how poorly the map went over, seeing as how the main complaint (the two doors) has been there since the initial version. I wonder why it never popped up in previous tests? Maybe previous testers just weren't so keen on engineers. Maybe it doesn't help that red had like five engineers, but I know that wasn't the only problem. Currently planned changes include removing the gates on the doors, and maybe adding another entrance to the middle (maybe above the left one?) or moving them around so that one sentry can't easily cover both.

    If anyone that attended today has any feedback, critique, comments, etc. I would really love to hear it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  16. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    So I'm pretty much done detailing the buildings. Haven't gotten started on the environment yet though. Getting started on optimization now though, and having some troubles, due to how open the areas are.

    [​IMG]

    My first thought was to lower the skybox down to hug the roofs of the buildings, then use areaportals in areas to allow visibility. However this didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped (as you can see in the right of that image, there's some cutting going on on textures). I've read through most of the usual optimizing guides (interlopers, nodraw.net, etc), so I've got a basic understanding. Areaportals aren't helping as much as I'd hoped, so time to get to work with those hints. Any optimizing tips for big outdoor areas like these would be greatly appreciated. So far I've been using Badwater and Badlands as sort of guides for the optimizing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  17. Languid

    Languid L5: Dapper Member

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    It's looking very impressive there. Try everthing you can with hint brushes, and if things are still a bit iffy, your map looks like it could have quite aggresive prop fade distances without any problems
     
  18. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Oh yeah, I'll definitely be abusing prop fade distances, haha.
     
  19. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

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    Bump for B1! Changes:

    -Fully detailed buildings.
    -Added windows to side buildings.
    -Removed gates leading to intel area.
    -Added gates leading from side area to buildings, to reduce sniper lines.
    -Added upper deck leading to intel area. Can be accessed via side buildings.

    Things to do:
    -Edit respawns so there's no 180 turn. YES I'M GOING TO DO IT, YOU GUYS CAN STOP ASKING FOR IT. Only reason it's not included in this release is cus I wanted to get the b1 out as soon as I could.
    -Detail the geography outside the map.
    -Fix up any detail/optimization issues.
     
  20. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    You're using a 256 units high wall philosphy which needs to be braught down to 192 in accessible areas for optimal gameplay experiences. The result was long and winding stairs that took up entire rooms which were also horrible to climb, along with excessive platform heights that overpowered soldiers, demo's and snipers and also caused fights to occur at unnaturally long distances.

    The intel courtyard needs to be split up, even in 2 if you can. It's too big and the far right "hut" is a very powerful sentry position. I managed to get some very nice flanks on it, but spawning players just came and killed me, usually before i could deal a killing blow. If it did go down, it would be back up by the time i spawned or made my way back across the map.

    The central courtyard is kinda fun, i would have said remove the mound in the very middle, bring down the platforms to a more reasonable height and make them smaller so that they resemble a battlements.

    My fps was generally horrible in this map, is it optimised? Because it didn't feel that way.

    summary of to do:
    • make intelligence courtyard smaller and/or cut it into 2 areas (which would prevent spawned players jumping immediately onto the intel)
    • central courtyard is good size, but reduce the height of platoforms on the sides.
    • remove the hill in the middle but provide cover in the form of props.

    edit: forgot an image i took.

    [​IMG]

    Popular sniper spot.

    You might consider not letting players flank immediately across from either far flank and cut off the sniper line in the process. It's pretty difficult to defend from any area that's not the huge intelligence courtyard or the middle. It wasn't so much tactical decision making involved in assaulting a base but testing one flank for weaknesses and then moving on to the other 2 consecutively until you found the flank not defended properly. Which might sound fun/workable but plays worse than it sounds simply because it's just one giant wall with 2 exits and a platform.

    It's also not entirely clear where the capture area was, i braught the flag back and only happened to rocket jump right into the intel carraige thing, otherwise i might have been wondering around for a seperate cap area for a while. It needs to be more obvious that the carraige is also the cap area (hazard strips and the capture zone decals are good enough hints).
     
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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010