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I think you may want to think about how you're gonna detail the outside areas soon, especially if you're beginning to make a move on the buildings. I've always thought that the under mid cave was a bit weird looking, and I think it'd be easier to get to grips why if it wasn't surrounded by that lurid green. Just my thoughts.
I'm sort of weighing my options on the grass texture in using at the moment. I need something I can blend into both the stone for the cliff face and a dirt texture for the walkable areas.
If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to see them. I'm thinking I might have to create my own, though.
And I hate how the mid cave tunnels (the ones going to second) look at the moment, but I'm kind of drawing a blank on what to do with it. I might give in and just turn it into part of the building. That'll help make the buildings thicker, too.
I sort of dug myself into a hole, pun intended, when it comes to the tunnel under mid, though. Not entirely sure what to do with it yet.
If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to see them. I'm thinking I might have to create my own, though.
And I hate how the mid cave tunnels (the ones going to second) look at the moment, but I'm kind of drawing a blank on what to do with it. I might give in and just turn it into part of the building. That'll help make the buildings thicker, too.
I sort of dug myself into a hole, pun intended, when it comes to the tunnel under mid, though. Not entirely sure what to do with it yet.
Well if you don't mind a bit of an overhaul, I came up with some of my own ideas. I thought the mid would be cool if the building was 2 story, with the old tunnel forming the lower floor. It would be functionally the same, but appear very different. The land could join up with the point either side as a bridge a la Badlands, to keep that functionality the same, and use crates or whatever to fill the gap between the displacements and the bridge. That means turning the displacements into a depression, which makes much more sense than a tunnel. Note also that this fixes the effect right now where the tunnel doesn't really look like it can support it's own weight. Lemme make up a picture:
Wow, if I keep messing around in paint I'll never get any revision done. Here, the red bit is the two story house. The triangle shape is a kind of balcony that runs either side that allows players to go past. In order to avoid having a steep drop half a meter from the walls of the house, which would look strange, the blue arrows represent a gentle decline in angle that forms a valley. In order for players to still access the house, a wooden walkway exists represented by the yellow which would continue off screen. In order to stop players accessing either side of the walls on the lower floor, crates and grates are represented by green that fill the area between the displacements and the wood above. Comprende?
Oh, and for the side tunnels between mid and second (and the last/second tunnel, if you still have it), just make them look like Dustbowls:
EDIT: Man, I put all this thought into the midpoint and I'm increasingly convinced it'll look stupid. Lemme get back to you on that. Maybe all you need is some foundation pillars in the tunnel and it'll look fine. In fact, that's basically the issue: This building has no foundations at all.
Wow, if I keep messing around in paint I'll never get any revision done. Here, the red bit is the two story house. The triangle shape is a kind of balcony that runs either side that allows players to go past. In order to avoid having a steep drop half a meter from the walls of the house, which would look strange, the blue arrows represent a gentle decline in angle that forms a valley. In order for players to still access the house, a wooden walkway exists represented by the yellow which would continue off screen. In order to stop players accessing either side of the walls on the lower floor, crates and grates are represented by green that fill the area between the displacements and the wood above. Comprende?
Oh, and for the side tunnels between mid and second (and the last/second tunnel, if you still have it), just make them look like Dustbowls:
EDIT: Man, I put all this thought into the midpoint and I'm increasingly convinced it'll look stupid. Lemme get back to you on that. Maybe all you need is some foundation pillars in the tunnel and it'll look fine. In fact, that's basically the issue: This building has no foundations at all.
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Yeah, instead of your perfectly round poop chute tunnels I'd just copy the look of the caves on dustbowl. Especially the ones on the second stage, they look cool and they're fun to fight in.
Not sure if brown is a color you want to be using though, but it's something to consider.
As for the cave under middle, squaring it off a bit might help there too. The rounded edges make it seem like it's made of putty.
Not sure if brown is a color you want to be using though, but it's something to consider.
As for the cave under middle, squaring it off a bit might help there too. The rounded edges make it seem like it's made of putty.
OK, I downloaded and walked around a bit, but cannot be bothered to upload pics for everything, so hope you can understand what I'm talking about by description.
Oh, and I just did my patented Claidheamh Mòr Map Size Test and cp_glassworks gets my seal of approval.
- It is possible to place stickies on the point side of the rock near 2nd so that they are completely invisible.
- It is possible to lob stickies from mid to second.
- The lower entrance to the base has a slide up door but a low roof above it. That means you can place stickies on the roof, but any attackers walking in cannot see them because the door is up and explosives can go through that door when up. Death occurs.
- The ramps around the last point - the one below and the one leading up to the balcony - are a little narrow to my taste. Easy to strafe off of.
- I really like this map. Just thought I'd mention it while I'm going through everything I don't like. Just wanted you to know that I REALLY like it.
- More gamedays pls?
- I'm extra pleased with my loading bay idea now. Because of the dropdown from the forward spawn with the truck, there'd be a pleasing symmetry if there was a loading bay on the other side connected to the lobby. Gotta get that gravel into the dump trucks somehow.
- From the lower entrance to the base I mentioned earlier, it's possible to see behind a displacement and the nodraw of the rear of the forward spawn.
- I really hope the random lightspots are gonna get something that makes them soon enough.
- I like the closure of the side passage to last. Really gives the tunnel some purpose, even if it is a bit windy.
- The mid roof and the blue lobby roof are the same texture. Something more neutral?
- Right, and here's the actual reason I loaded the map up: to have a look at that mid. What occured to me is that you could make the under area a spytech hideout that has been revealed by some excavation either side of the wooden house above. It'd make total RED and BLU sense to build a facade just 30cm away from a real hidden base, and now their trying to take control.
- Alternatively, you could get rid of the grass altogether and go for a kind of Foundry theme. Just spitballing ideas here.
- The posters either side of mid on the walls of the wood bases are weird looking, and I don't really know why. Too straight? Too bright?
- There's some real nasty stickybomb traps around the crates at mid. You may want to deal with them.
Oh, and I just did my patented Claidheamh Mòr Map Size Test and cp_glassworks gets my seal of approval.
It's like a dustbowl tunnel, but it's a giant dustbowl tunnel! Make sure you put some crates and mining equipment down there to make it obvious the whole space was dug out.
And that picture actually reminded me: I'm never a fan of the 2 small ammo kits next to each other. For two reasons: if they ever get out of sync, anyone who desperately needs ammo will be forever disappointed, given how that's such a natural spot for a medium amount of ammo. Also, engineers are really upset because the 82 metal they get is not enough to build anything, making heading down there a complete waste of time. They tend to work in 100s, so please save us the trouble.
I've seen it on a few maps, and I assume it kind of stems from the double small healthpack on Lakeside, with the kind of mindset that "it's varied so it's good". But while nobody cares if they get a tiny bit less health, sometimes it really is crucial if they can't grab all the ammo they need.
Oh, and I like the new dirt colour a little better. I still think the grass is a little lurid though. For the tunnel underneath, I'd maybe consider making all the overhead beams as beefy as the one in the middle? You're trying to justify not putting a support pillar in the middle, and I don't think you've done that quite yet.
Make sure you put some crates and mining equipment down there to make it obvious the whole space was dug out.And that picture actually reminded me: I'm never a fan of the 2 small ammo kits next to each other. For two reasons: if they ever get out of sync, anyone who desperately needs ammo will be forever disappointed, given how that's such a natural spot for a medium amount of ammo. Also, engineers are really upset because the 82 metal they get is not enough to build anything, making heading down there a complete waste of time. They tend to work in 100s, so please save us the trouble.
I've seen it on a few maps, and I assume it kind of stems from the double small healthpack on Lakeside, with the kind of mindset that "it's varied so it's good". But while nobody cares if they get a tiny bit less health, sometimes it really is crucial if they can't grab all the ammo they need.
Oh, and I like the new dirt colour a little better. I still think the grass is a little lurid though. For the tunnel underneath, I'd maybe consider making all the overhead beams as beefy as the one in the middle? You're trying to justify not putting a support pillar in the middle, and I don't think you've done that quite yet.
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I would actually not add any crates because that's already a cramped area (and adding the ceiling seems like it makes it even smaller) and more junk will just make it harder to fight in.
edit - plus, you know, this is Crash you're talking to. I guarantee he's gonna go bonkers with detailing at some point so it's best not to encourage him.
edit - plus, you know, this is Crash you're talking to. I guarantee he's gonna go bonkers with detailing at some point so it's best not to encourage him.
I did the two small ammo kits as a way to make it more symmetrical for both sides grabbing health and ammo. I wanted it to be a straight line of topping off health and ammo when you run down there, but I couldn't do that without giving either side a slight advantage on what they grab first. I figured this way both sides get a bit of ammo first before grabbing the health which is dead center.
I have heard it's kind of skimpy on ammo around mid though, so I might change things a bit.
The middle and the outer beams are all a bit thicker than the ones in between them. I think it looks realistic enough in game, though. I'd like to show off the broken boards more if possible, though. I put a few of the dead shrub things sticking out of some of them to imply roots and I think it looks neat. Not sure if that'll stick around, but we'll see.
I'm actually trying really hard NOT to over-detail this one.
I have heard it's kind of skimpy on ammo around mid though, so I might change things a bit.
The middle and the outer beams are all a bit thicker than the ones in between them. I think it looks realistic enough in game, though. I'd like to show off the broken boards more if possible, though. I put a few of the dead shrub things sticking out of some of them to imply roots and I think it looks neat. Not sure if that'll stick around, but we'll see.
I'm actually trying really hard NOT to over-detail this one.
It's okay to be obsessed with that look because it looks awesome.
That's why trainwreck has an entire half of the map based on it. Pretty sure I C&P'd the lamps from dustbowl.
That's why trainwreck has an entire half of the map based on it. Pretty sure I C&P'd the lamps from dustbowl.
Ehh, I know, but it still pains me to see double small ammo on maps. It's just never enough. Just make the health and medium ammo on the center line of the map. Yes, you won't be able to pick up both while walking in a straight line, but that's rare anyway. If you still need more ammo and don't think that's fair, have just the healthpack in the tunnel and move the medium ammo to each side building.
Oh, and tunnels <3. This whole map reminds me a lot of Yukon, which presumably is bad luck as that means it will never be played despite having nothing wrong with it.
I'd like to note that I think the dustbowl tunnels have a wood ceiling, and really flat ground, and while this sort of thing is mapper's preference, consider that there's not just one way to dig a tunnel.
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Yeah they are different from Dustbowls. I wanted to differentiate them a bit, do my own thing. I was planning on putting some broken up boards on the ceiling but I thought it looked good as-is and decided to save some brushes.
You see that xzzy?! Restraint!
Edit: and yeah I'll probably just make it a medium pack down there.
You see that xzzy?! Restraint!
Edit: and yeah I'll probably just make it a medium pack down there.
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You could always stack them on top of each other. But then competitive players would probably complain it creates an unfair line of sight obstruction.
I think the ceiling looks good, the merging of displacements and brushes creates a lot of opportunity for natural variation without adding triangles so I say doing it whenever possible is a good idea. I'd just suggest curving up the floor a tiny bit to merge it better with the walls, and pick either lightbulbs or oil lamps and stick with it. Stop switching themes.
I think the ceiling looks good, the merging of displacements and brushes creates a lot of opportunity for natural variation without adding triangles so I say doing it whenever possible is a good idea. I'd just suggest curving up the floor a tiny bit to merge it better with the walls, and pick either lightbulbs or oil lamps and stick with it. Stop switching themes.
