[Contest Entry] Stovepipe Wells

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Nineaxis, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,310
    Initial impression is much much better than the last alpha. I was pretty tired when playing, but I'll try to give better feedback soon. Visually, I kind of love the map, verrrry pretty. More foliage would be nice. Also, some of your interior ceilings (with the metaldoor1 textures) could use some simple metal supports (one brush each would suffice.) Please add some spytech flair, in some creative manner, to the last point, although this is of course up to the author.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. FLOOR_MASTER

    FLOOR_MASTER L3: Member

    Messages:
    119
    Positive Ratings:
    139
    (B1C 15v15) This is just a quick reaction based on only two rounds...

    A lot of the sniper lanes I noted earlier remain, but even so the gameplay wasn't bogged down by snipers like before. In general, gameplay was vastly improved over the previous version we tested. Both teams were able to progress to the final point after reasonable battles (no steamrolls) but could not capture the final point.

    The sentry position shown here is difficult to deal with because of RED actively defending on the opposite side of the screenshot (in the foreground). Adding a doorway in the area indicated would help tremendously:

    [​IMG]

    Simlarly, the final area in general is a bit too open and very difficult to enter due to knockback from an array of sentries set up along the upper perimeter. I think it'd help if you broke up the area a bit (e.g. the red barrier on the right) as well as adding a path to the upper level from BLU's side (left ramp):

    [​IMG]

    Also, the trek from BLU spawn to point 3 is on the long side. I'm not sure if this is a problem yet.

    We'll continue to run playtests.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,440
    Positive Ratings:
    3,793
    Indeed, this is looking very hot now. It played particularly well with just 4v4/5v5 in initial playtests and i imagine it'll be amazing with a full server. I imagine it'll deffinately be one of those maps that is used to fill a server as it plays well regardless of the number of players. I can't wait.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,185
    Oh man, I can't belive I forgot to post my thoughts on this map -- I thoroughly enjoyed it.

    You could use a sign right about here to help spawning players get their bearings
    [​IMG]

    and there are these two mini-cliffs that could use some clipping. As it is right now you usually have to jump to get on them.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    Yep, those are the clipping problems I found as well. Generally, most of the map should be clipped so that someone can easily backtrack without getting stuck.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

    Messages:
    1,767
    Positive Ratings:
    1,409
    Stovepipe Wells Beta 2
    Download: TF2Maps.net or FPSBanana

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Changes:
    • Detail pass
    • Adjusted displacements for ease of movement
    • Fixed two-way one-way door
    • Fixed minor detailing issues
    • Fixed playerclipping issues
    • Minor lightmap optimisation
    • Added menu photos
    • Added Quick List photo to download folder
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  7. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

    Messages:
    1,767
    Positive Ratings:
    1,409
    Stovepipe Wells Beta 3
    Download: TF2Maps.net or FPSBanana

    Changes
    • Fixed areaportal bug
    • Fixed displacement misalign
    • Slight lightmap optimisation
    • Eliminated VPHYSICS console spam
    • Corrected minor detailing issues
    • Added bz2 to download folder
    • Added .RES file for server owners to force download Quick List thumb
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    Alright, I've become so pissed off with being stuck in random places in this gorgeous map, I've actually bothered to post pictures and stuff that YOU need to improve. I'll post more, but this is to get started.

    Clipping:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In the same area as above (it's one of the little cliff/steps in the screenshot above):

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is one clipping problem accessible by Rocket Jumping, but all along that plateau you can stand on the edges (it's the plateau near that little Blu building that the cart goes through at the first point):

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is the plateau itself:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Visual:

    This little area is SOOOO bland! The red areas are the bland walls that need detail (little prop rooms, windows that look into spytechish stuff, anything really) and the blue area needs some lighting.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You can see this by standing on top of boxes and jumping.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Detail here would be amazing. Maybe some windows, or you can make it accessible as a sniper deck for both red and blu!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Weird shadows on these barrels, bro.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Blank wall, no detail. ADD SOME.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Optimization:

    Very short fade distances here.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I get very bad FPS looking here because there is the large vista that looks over all those buildings. Is there any way to improve optimization here?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I don't get the point of rendering everything past this natural wall here, it only makes FPS worse. I don't know what the specific term for it is, but I've heard Mangy say something along the lines of wall of skybox, so that's my suggestion. Point is, if you rocket jump, you shouldn't be able to see the last point, and if you rocket jump from that last point, you shouldn't be able to see the third point. See where I'm going with this?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Gameplay:

    The door circled here is the one leading to the final point, and shouldn't open until the second point has been taken (do what Valve did in Badwater, and have the no-entry sign and not allow it to be opened until the second point is taken).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Oh, and the image captions are on top of the image it is describing, so you aren't confused. And I'll probably update this with more bugs I find.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  9. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

    Messages:
    1,767
    Positive Ratings:
    1,409
    Thank you for all the pictures, it really helps a ton to sort out stuff. Most of the displacement ledges you circled are ones I've adjusted so that you can walk up them, but I'll go through and adjust them some more to be sure people don't get caught.

    With the wall between the third and fourth points, I can't run a skybox brush across it because it doesn't seal, which causes some very odd visual glitches (much like the one in the pic taken from the crates). I have placed a blockbullets brush across it though, so it cannot be exploited by stickyspamming over the wall.

    I'm moving the areas you mentioned to high priority in detailing for the next release. That "bridge" was a sniper deck in the early alphas, but was made inaccessible after playtesting.

    Finally, I didn't lock the door because I didn't think people would be taking it with the spawnpoints facing the other door. If it is a such a problem, I will lock it until the other door is locked.

    Thanks for the help,
    Nineaxis
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    No problem, after all, this is one of my new favorite maps. And your thing about the spawnpoints, even if you spawn facing the wall like in badwater, the door is still closed. And, I forgot to mention it, the second respawn room (the one you can spawn in after the second point is taken) should be closed off as well, to follow Valve's example.

    EDIT: Occasionally, I get stuck here. 50% chance of it happening, but you should smooth it out anyways just to be safe.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  11. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,556
    Cerious pointed out most of the things I was going to, so all I have is this:

    [​IMG]

    I think it needs some more contrast between the "doorway" and the surroundings. It's all dark, and players in the shadows against the shadows don't show up that well. One suggestion would be some lights shining on the wall through the passageway.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,440
    Positive Ratings:
    3,793
    [​IMG]

    :O crappy quality... but heh. I hope you can read that.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2009
  14. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,185
    I really like Stovepipe. It has a really great feel and gameplay flows nicely. It's probably where I'm going to put my vote for in the contest.

    I've already brought up some of my issues, one being adding player clipping to ALL your displacement cliffs, and another being the exploding teleport exits. However, I have one more I'd like to see addressed. It's how easy it is for a BLU engineer to sneak by RED's lines and build behind them. What Valve does to avoid this is placing gates on all non-track paths that open only upon capturing a certain point. This also helps RED find their way to the front lines.

    [​IMG]

    These are only my suggestions, but please consider placing gates near the marked locations. For your convenience I have color coded them to their corresponding CPs.

    Keep it up!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    455
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    You notice you have 2 yellow gates, blocking entrance to the top of the building? Remove one of those so RED engies and snipers can get up there beforehand. I'd remove the one that is right next to point 3.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,185
    That could work, since it wouldn't be a dead end anyways.
     
  17. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

    Messages:
    1,767
    Positive Ratings:
    1,409
    I'm not sure how big of a deal it actually is considering you're the only one I've ever seen do it, and it was a low player count. Some doors I am going to add though to keep RED from building in BLU's flanking routes.
     
  18. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,185
    It's not the end of the world, but I've been able to do it every single time with little resistance. I've played your map with a full population several times already and the result is the same because with those routes open it's rare that anybody notices you. Heck, I even did it as a heavy once.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  19. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,185
    pl_waste also had the problem of exploding teleport exits similar to yours -- around the end pit.

    Turned out the hybrid physics props had their collisions set to "VPhysics". By changing this value to "No Collision", the problem was fixed and exits started working again.

    Hope this helps :D
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    298
    Positive Ratings:
    86
    I really liked this

    Soldiers and Demos are going to have a great time in that first area with the radar dish. Lots of high ground to jump to

    I'm trying to think of any gameplay issues, and I really can't

    One of the big, circular mesas in the first section lets you jump up and perch on the very edge. I don't think this was intended

    Good stuff, one of my favorite payloads for sure
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1