Contest #4 Final entries are in. Vote now!

Discussion in 'Contests' started by drp, Jun 3, 2010.

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  1. drp

    aa drp

    Messages:
    2,251
    Positive Ratings:
    2,551
    You were given a chance to play them, now it's time to pick a winner.

    Voting is now open.

    Maps should be rated in the following categories:

    • Gameplay - how well the map plays, map flow, etc. How well it plays out competitively.
    • Class Involvement - how well classes assume their roles, how the map offers opportunities for each class
    • Style - how well the map fits into TF2. Detailing, architecture, geometry, etc.
    • Optimization - how well the map is optimized. Framerate, filesize, etc.

    The scale is a 1 - 7 mark for every category. A closing short summary of any thoughts you had on the map would be appreciated, but not required.

    Voting Template

    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst X X X X
    Landfall X X X X
    Stockpile X X X X
    Mercy X X X X
    Wiretap X X X X
    Deliverance X X X X
    Converge X X X X
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire X X X X
    Fusion X X X X


    Code:
    [table="head"]Maps|[B]Gameplay[/B]|[B]Class Involvement[/B]|[B]Style[/B]|[B]Optimization[/B]
    [B]Clouburs[/B]t|X|X|X|X
    [B]Landfall[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Stockpile[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Mercy[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Wiretap[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Deliverance[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Converge[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Overlook[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Bedrock[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Wildfire[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [B]Fusion[/B]|X|X|X|X
    [./table]
    Few guidelines to know before you submit a vote:

    • The results of each vote, after the judging time is over, will be calculated together to get an average rating for each map.
    • Users MAY NOT grade their own maps.
    • The goal of the popular vote is to get an overall rating for each map based on everyone's impression of how fun it is. It prevents judges' votes from counting too much, and makes sure the winners are indicative of our entire community's feelings.

    Map Rating Formula:

    ((Voter's category scorings added up)/7)/(Number of votes) * .5 + ((Judges' category scorings added up)/7)/(Number of judges) *.5 = Final ranking. This formula will be published with all variables so that we all know it was a fair contest.


    Post only your votes. Nothing more.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  2. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

    Messages:
    1,257
    Positive Ratings:
    371
    -Reserved for future votes!-


    I like being first :p

    *Disclaimer* My votes are subject to change, based on how much more I play the given map!
    -My votes are null because I played these maps in pubs, not pugs-

    [​IMG]

    Let me put this frankly: I love Wiretap. The gameplay is great, and obviously well thought out, with enough, but not too many side-paths to the intel. The map is also quite easy to learn, as the landmarks are obvious: I can think of many places that could have names like the hay room. The map is also the perfect size for 6v6, as FULL TEAMS can move through it fluidly. I have tried playing almost all classes in this map, and they all seem quite successful: A good demoman can traverse quickly, and there are ambush and drop downs for pyros. Again, very well thought out. Although, the best part of this map IMO is the detailing: The rounded buildings, although not usually TF2, work amazingly here, and the intel model is superb! The skybox adds a final touch to a new environment. Finally, I have had no framerate issues personally, but I remove the 2 points due to some small glitches, such as the magic door, and other glitches. Great job!

    [​IMG]

    Mercy: The map with a mercy rule, to allow a suffering team to come back. While I think that this is a good idea in theory, it is quite gimmicky in practice. The text looks bad, and breaks the 4th wall. If you want to allow a team to make a comeback, then you should build it in to the map, instead of creating a gimick. Same with the nobuild on the intel stand. Instead of making a good sentry spot, and however cleverly nobuiliding it, its not as good as making it a worse sentry spot. Gameplay wise, the map seems quite average. There are sidepaths, and main paths. In my opinion, the side path is too useful, offering a free entrance in to the intel room, where there are no ways to take back the tunnel. The map looks fine, and fits TF2 well. You lose major points for the mercy rule reminding me that I am playing a game. Il check optimization later, but I have no frame rate problems. In all, its a fun map, but it just feels like something is missing.

    [​IMG]
    I am sorry to say that this map is the only one in the contest which I actually dislike. I feel like this map has two major flaws, and a number of minor one: The first one is that by choosing an invade mode, and creating a very fast return, it creates an extremely loose map with no center. The fact that the flag moves around so fast makes it no fun for slow/normal classes, like the soldier, and pyro. The other flaw with this map is the sound. Let me say this consisly: I HATE THE HL2 SOUNDSCAPE. Ok, glad thats done, but if your wondering why your style score is a one, its because of how freaking annoying this is. Not only is it annoying, but its obvious a hl2/portal sound, which everyone knows. You know how people always say not to use HL2 textures? Well this is worse. Anyways, that pisses me off to the point that I refuse to play the map because of it. There are many small things, but the worst of them imo is how the left (coming from base) main path requires fall damage. There should never be damage associated with the main path, its just not done. Ever. It feels weird. Anyways, I have no framerate issues, but il do a more comprehensive look in to optimization later.

    [​IMG]
    I like this map. It has a kind of good feeling to play, I dont really know why. Like Wiretap, it has really easy to learn areas, and definate landmarks. For various reasons, the gameplay is very fun. It also, in my experience, plays well with both small and large teams. My only issues with this map is that it feels a bit too badlands-ey. The mid is almost an exact copy, which is annoying. I do like the whole base and intel area, although they feel a bit like you mixed fastlane and dustbowl together. IDK, I just cant shake the feeling that there is something weird. Most classes play well on this map, especially the usually less useful ones such as spys, due to many flanking and other routes to the intel. Detailing is where this map really falls down: You just used standard details from badlads, and dustbowl. It feels so same-ey everywhere in the map. I really dislike it. And your optimization score is a bit low due to the amazing post by Psy talking about your optimization. Due thanks have been granted!
    [​IMG]
    Ah, Fusion. This map is enormous. Like WAY too big. It feels tiny when I play on a 24 man server, I shudder to think how it plays 6v6. Also, although I like the mechanic of the two flag touch, NO ONE DOES IT! I have never once seen both flags out of their respective rooms at the same time whenever I have played. Ever. It makes your maps gimick useless. On another topic, due to the size of the map, it makes scouts and rocket jumping classes a bit too powerful. I also get a somewhat yukon feeling from some of your cooridoors. I like your detailing, but I feel that most of the models are a bit too crude, and don't really fit in with the rest of the snow theme. They are too perfect, and don't have the TF2 traditional rust spots, etc... on them. The map plays fine on my computer, but the snow does slow it a bit. In all, the map is very average.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  3. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,851
    Positive Ratings:
    4,851
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4 Column 5
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst - - - -
    Landfall 6 6 7 6
    Stockpile 5 5 6 5
    Mercy 4 6 6 7
    Wiretap 5 6 6 6
    Deliverance 6 7 6 6
    Converge x x x x
    Overlook 5 5 7 4
    Bedrock x x x x
    Wildfire 4 6 7 6
    Fusion 7 7 6 6


    Landfall:
    I fell in love with this map the first time I saw it. I just love the whole feel and atmosphere of it. The gameplay is solid, if a little chokey at times around the intel. Lots of height that makes soldiers love you, while nice corners for pyros, jumping spots for scouts, etc. I know this is supposed to be from a 6v6 standpoint, but engies don't have great places to build near the intel. Still, it dosn't matter that much for 6v6. All around, I loved it.

    Stockpile:
    I do like this map. I think you did well to copy the farm theme, but it just seems...empty. Compared to 2fort, which is a detailing masterpeice. The gameplay is solid, although it does get rather chokey in the mid. There doesn't seem to be enough ways to 'sneak around' the action. That, and an engie can hold down the intel pretty well. The optimization is a bit weak, you could have areaportaled the well doors near the intel when you in the middle, but its still better than cloudburst so you get a reasonable score. Well done!

    Mercy:
    I don't know what to say about this map. The style is okay, it's nice looking, but the map is so small! The whole thing feels just a bit cramped. A single engie can also build on top of the stairs, which is a rather strong position - at least thats what I found. You're optimization is really good though, and you did well to make the map bright in a night setting.

    Wiretap:
    Your map is nice. I like the whole backstory behind it, and the spytech bases are really nice. The base seems really easy to defend though, by any class. It's hard to get in unless you have a whole team backing you, especially because all the routes go in with view from the sniper deck. The optimization is decent, I never had any worries with it. But the whole map just feels a bit...static.

    Deliverence:
    When it comes to style on this map, I think its rather like cloudburst. If you look at individual sections of the map, they're rather beautiful and well detailed. But if you take in the map as a whole, it seems empty and almost "plastic." I still like the map though, and I think all the different routes make for nice gameplay and class involvement. The optimization is hard for this map, I can tell, but I think you did a good job at making it work reasonably well. And I love your custom models! Nicely done!

    Converge:
    I have not yet played this in 6v6, but I will comment on what I think.
    The map is rather nice. You did the gorge style well. The bases feel a bit labrythy and take a little while to get used to. There's also two sort-of-narrow ways into mid not counting the sniper deck, which can get rather chokey once one team holds the bridge, at least in pub play. When I get a chance to play this in 6v6 I will recomment and vote.

    Overlook:
    This map is beautiful. It has that subtle beaty to it that you don't really notice untill you specifically look for it. Rather like 2fort. The gameplay is alright. I can't comment much on this and class involvement as I've only had a chance to play it once or twice, but I had fun. When you out in the open of the map, it renders a hell of a lot of polygons. Perhaps you could improve it there. Well done though.
    Oh, and you have a lot of props with VPhysics models that don't exist.

    Bedrock:
    I have not yet played this in 6v6, but I will comment on what I think.
    Other than this map this rather boringly detailed, it's quite nice! One gripe I had when playing, though, is that the hole in the intel room roof makes it nearly impossible to defend. And the way into mid through the mining tunnels seems very long. Other than that, I didn't find it too exciting, but then, thats probably not very valid as I played engie mostly due to my abnormally high ping.
    Once I have played 6v6 on this map I will recomment and vote.

    Wildfire:
    Oh wildfire. I have mixed thoughts about this map. The style is nice, and everything looks good, however...I felt that this map had a lot of "Spawn-travel-to-mid-and-die, rise and repeat" syndrome. The map didn't seem to really GO anywhere. Apart from that the map is pretty good. I think if you had time to do some more testing before you had to leave, it would have been great.

    Fusion:
    What to say. I really like the style of this map. I think you did snow a lot better than I did. The intel room is really interesting too, and although engies can hold it down from one spot, if the enemy team alters their course it doesn't stand a chance. This map offers great flanking routes, and it looks rather nice too. Some of the map seems a bit bland though, but other than that I liked it. I think it offers great opportunities for all the classes, and I certainly slipped into "ambush mode" as pyro.
    One thing I dislike though, is how "fullbright" the spawns are. I know that they arn't fullbright, but the whole "no shadows" takes any depth away from it. This is just a tiny gripe, well done still!

    All:
    Well done. All of these maps look really nice and are well rounded. Some need some gameplay attention, but all in all, a rather successfull contest. They all beat 2fort's gameplay, at least.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  4. Okrag

    aa Okrag Wall Staples

    Messages:
    1,029
    Positive Ratings:
    640
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst X X X X
    Landfall X X X X
    Stockpile 7 6 6 6
    Mercy 2 2 4 3
    Wiretap 3 4 6 6
    Deliverance 6 7 6 6
    Converge 5 5 6 5
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire 7 7 7 6
    Fusion X X X X

    Will update as time goes on.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  5. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 5 6 5 5
    Landfall 6 4 6 4
    Stockpile 4 5 4 6
    Mercy 3 3 3 6
    Wiretap 4 5 5 4
    Deliverance - - - -
    Converge 5 5 3 7
    Overlook 4 4 5 4
    Bedrock 4 4 4 5
    Wildfire 3 2 6 5
    Fusion 6 6 6 3


    Scores are relative, meaning high and low scores aren't reflective of what I think of a map in the full context of TF2, but rather how it compares to the other maps being judged.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  6. Tekku

    aa Tekku

    Messages:
    683
    Positive Ratings:
    708
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 5 6 6 5
    Landfall 5 6 7 6
    Stockpile 7 7 6 7
    Mercy 6 6 6 7
    Wiretap 5 5 6 4
    Deliverance 4 6 5 6
    Converge 5 5 5 6
    Overlook 6 6 6 6
    Bedrock 6 6 5 6
    Wildfire 6 6 7 6
    Fusion 7 6 7 5


    Ignore all my spelling,grammar errors, thank you!


    Thoughts:

    Cloudburst: The gameplay could be better, since it was kinda hard to get used to all routes, mainly there were only 2 routes which people used the most, anyways the style of the map was great, rainbow, ice, caves it looks superb, but in some places there should be more work done, like in 30% of buildings, were dark inside, also the ice sound was bugged, it sounded like i was running on glass or something metallic, also the optimization could be better 25Fps wasn't good.

    Landfall: Map was just too big, and the layout was really confusing, running in one room and coming out infront of enemy intelligence was strange, but the good thing is that the map had great height variation, i really enjoyed to play as soldier and demo, also scout had advantages from the height too. Talking about the look, it was superb, i say it's one of the best looking maps, it used it own style, while still maintaining the main idea of the game, optimization wasn't good or bad, it was, um, average, 50-70Fps isn't the maximum, but it sure doesn't destroy my eyes.

    Stockpile: What can i say, the map is great, its the map i really enjoy to play, it doesn't have too much and in the same time its ideal, most of the routes gave advantages for one class, while other ones were excellent for others, although there wasn't too much height advantage, it didn't give any problems.
    The theme could use a bit more work, some places just looked bland, while other ones had too much detail in it, optimization in this map was great 120Fps, that's really what im expecting from a great comp map.

    Mercy: Map, that really should be fit for competitive play, its small, easy to learn layout, and fast paced, but , there were some chokes, 1 sentry could cover the middle, also few additional routes, all of the routes were leading into a choke, it should work in 6vs6 game, as there won't be so so much players, there's really a difference between 12vs12 and 6vs6, anyways, i wouldn't mind playing the map is ETF2L or ESL. What i really liked in the map was the theme, the map surely managed to use Doublecross theme, its dark, but well lit, also the geometry was interesting ,but repetitive. Optimization in this map was the best of all, i have no complains about it, since the fps didn't have drops , it was constant everywhere.

    Wiretap: To be honest, most hated from all the maps, although someone liked it, it wasn't really in my style, it was confusing, really hard to learn layout, thousands of routes, to take, which will confuse even a comp player, maybe that's only me, but, i never managed to play as Soldier on this map, i just had bad luck, all the time only on this map, since your map is like sand clock, where the middle has few routes, although it looks really nice, it was overdetailed, to much props there, or too hard geometry there, also my fps suffered dramatic drops, from 60's to 5Fps in fights, which really destroyed all the fun, i and im sure everyone else could have. A map with great potentional, but badly or just fastly made.

    Deliverance: Really confusing layout, also same as with Converge, the invade mode was just out of place, first of all the fact that you need to run to enemy music stage like cap point, was already bad, the tracks basically were the only route used, since everyone followed them, and bam, you get killed by a sentry which takes out most of the area, in the cap point, too many stairs, ladders , and really narrow routes, also sniper lines destroyed the gameplay completely, it seems that the map wasn't really finished. Although the sawmill theme was really well made, some parts of the map or atleast the intel cap point, was out of place or just strange, although the layout wasn't the best for optimization, it does a good job, to prevent fps drops and have a average or almost good 60Fps.

    Converge: Map which had potential in the beginning, turned out as a disappointment, although the map play's really good, but invade ctf destroys it, games tend to be boring, 1 or 2 caps per game, also the return was too fast, usually there were scouts who were camping at the intel respawn, so most of the fights were inside the building, if the map would use the default setting it could be one of the best ones, since it has height advantage, good but vulnerable spots for engies. Although the map looks detailed, the outside area of it, specially buildings look unfinished, the map managed to use gorge thematic inside, but not outside, it just looked like a random detailing, anyways optimization wasn't that bad, there were some points where i got 100Fps and there were some with 20Fps. So it could use more work in some places.

    Overlook: A bit confusing layout, which wasn't confusing at dev stage, maybe detailing distracted me, but, ok, Tech, i must stop talking about detail right now.
    So the wooden, dam. So the map was great, although the map was medium large, it felt big, all the routes, gave the feeling of a big open map, which gave many opportunities for both teams to flank and attack, the height should have a bit more work, also not all classes benefited from this layout, it felt like something is missing. The theme was great, although of the red theme, but the map really managed , to use scientific also wooden theme, without confusion, in what side the team is, maybe it could use a bit more work, on the science buildings, like pipe there or sign there, but thats not really that bad, since the lack of props somewhere, and the balanced prop placement in other places didn't make my fps suffer, 60Fps that nice, but again another map in which i had fps drops.

    Bedrock: Map with big potentional, although it has relative simple design, it was really good, all the routes in the map gave some advantage, on gave height another time, there really was enough height, maybe the intelligence shack looked a bit cramped and easy to defend, it didn't give any problems, when playing , yes it was a choke, with few caps at all, but it sure was enjoyable, the theme what can i say, it was simple, bland, also annoying, your displacements were badly made, specially in spawn area, most of the displacements blocked your way, or were just out of place, although this map doesn't look so good, i could feel that the mapper worked on optimization atleast, he didn't let the map have fps drops, 45Fps is great, but it could be better.

    Wildfire: Annoying, spawn exits were annoying, im sure player shouldn't expect to have a drop when exiting spawn, although the map was big it wasn't bad, the spire or hill, which looks like a spire hill, was really bad, one sentry there could just stop the enemy team, big doors that separated the base from center were a choke, and really blocky, i surely wouldn't want to fight and then run to the door that will shake your aim to other side, what was great, its the theme although im not a fan of red apocalyptic theme, the scientific buildings were nicely built, and themed, the fps could have a bit more work, since it wasn't ideal. 50Fps, good, but with random fps drops, not.

    Fusion: What can i say, this map surely is one of my favorite ones, although it was confusing at first time, the more i play it the easier it gets. It was big, but not huge, it was just the right size, many routes gave opportunities, to attack and flank the enemy team. The theme it's superb, i just loved the cold, snow, and the style of buildings, the fire barrel fit in the map, although they were fps killers, but that's not really a big problem, from spawn to center the map is greatly detailed, lit, and interesting, but the optimization could use some work, really the fire barrels should get optimized somehow, 10fps when i see a barrel is bad, although not critical, i really needed to lower my settings to play the map, and enjoy atleast 50Fps, so there really are some optimization problems.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  7. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

    Messages:
    2,289
    Positive Ratings:
    1,348
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 4 7 6 5
    Landfall 5 3 4 5
    Stockpile 6 7 7 4
    Mercy 3 3 2 7
    Wiretap 4 4 3 6
    Deliverance 5 5 4 6
    Converge 5 6 5 7
    Overlook 4 5 7 5
    Bedrock 6 7 5 5
    Wildfire 5 6 5 6
    Fusion 6 7 5 7


    Cloudburst: Cloudburst's gameplay is mixed to me. The area that contains the intel room is good, and I like the intel room. I just don't really like the middle very much. The fact that it's inside is in itself a little weird, but what I dislike is how wide it is. However, the varied areas in this map ensure all classes should have a good time. Neither Scouts nor defending players are overpowered in terms of the intel room. There are open spaces, confined spaces, etc. So that's good. Cloudburst also looks really good! All the details look appropriately winter-alpine-like and the ice and the rainbow are good touches. I just dislike the fact that the entire map is surrounded by cliffs and trees with no visible outside worls. Optimization is ok, nothing fantastic. A lot of unnecessary rendering in most places. 49.2 MB may be pushing it a little for impatient people.

    Landfall: I have mixed feelings about this map. The flow of gameplay is a little awkward because so much of the map takes place off the ground, on high levels that are always hard to get to. This ties into class balance as well. Soldiers and Demomen can go anywhere easily, which is good, but this is also frustrating considering Medics and any other class that needs to walk, will have to make use of small ramps and catwalks and illogical routes that appear to go in the wrong direction relative to where you want to go. I'm not a fan of the two split spawns being quite far away, nor the intel right next to them. It's not such a bad map to play on, just... awkward. The style is nice, I love the trees and it seems to fit the alpine theme well, however, I think you're using way too much wood, and some of your rooms and areas are plain. In my mind this is basically "THE wooden map", change it up a bit. Your optimization is fine, but at 54.1 MB your file size is a little unpleasant.

    Stockpile: I'm glad you settled for a simple "five squares" layout for this map. It's not original but it works like a charm. I like how its design allows you to completely bypass the defenders on your way to the intel, so they need to keep on their toes. I just dislike how, sometimes, it seems entirely impossible to stop the carrier. The intel room itself is a good fighting space with one main path and two alternate ones, and not having to go past the spawn to get to the intel is good. The middle is also "tried and true", and offers a little advantage for Soldiers and Demomen. Those classes seem to have good opportunities to move around as they wish. I've tried some other classes on this map, like Heavy, which I had no problem with. The balance is good for every class. You absolutely nailed the farm theme - the map looks amazing! The optimization is decent in some areas and bad in others. In the middle 3/4 of the entire map appears to be drawn.

    Mercy: This map has a very strange layout, and I'm not sure I like it so much. The fact that the intel rooms are so close to each other means that on anything short of an amazing team it's a popular place for enemy visits. I don't really get why there's a path that snakes around the entire intel room when the only reason to use this is that you get an additional little spamhole so you can shoot stuff at the people in the intel room. I'm sorry to say I didn't like the layout very much. It does a decent job in terms of regular classes like Soldiers and Demomen, I don't know how classes like Scouts are supposed to flank though. I see how the security doors are an attempt to fix the size issues of the map, but I can't think of how they could be anything but annoying. Your details are all over the place. Blue textures in RED's base, shiny spytech mixed with gritty concrete, metal walls transitioning directly into wood, and a particular hallway that looks like an Escher painting. At least you did well on the optimization, which is some of the better in this contest.

    Wiretap: Many people say Wiretap's base layout is like a maze. I partly agree, it's a little twisty-turny and strange in some senses, sometimes it may be hard to get exactly where you want. It's ok after you learn the layout, but you never see any good fights going on indoors. In addition Demomen seem extremely powerful in these areas. The outdoors part flows better, with a great bridge/yard, it's just that it's a little long and tight so not all classes do well in that area. Class balance isn't totally screwed just because of that, it's still decent and all, but if you add an Engineer to the mix he can put up a pretty mean Sentry. When it comes to your style, I can see you've tried to make a unique spytech theme. But you're forgetting that TF2 isn't all spytech, why don't you have a facade to break up the monotony of white walls with stripes and computers on them? Well executed, but too boring and a little... wrong, in a sense. Your optimization is great, though, just push it a little further in the middle and this is worth a 7.

    Deliverance: The two Invade CTF maps that are left in the contest have both mastered the concept to the degree that it is actually possible to master. In other words, I don't think it's a perfect mode, especially since the intel starts in a neutral position and it's not far for a Scout to ninja-grab it and run off to the capture zone. It requires a very good team OR a dedicated defense to win in this map, which I dislike. But for what it is, the layout is nice and it flows well. Most classes are balanced well, and an advantage of the fact that you more or less need a defense, is that the heavier, unconventional classes have something to do as well. The style of Deliverance is ok, but underdetailed and unfocused in a sense (by which I mean I don't get the purpose of a huge drill in the middle of the woodlands). Your optimization is good, 47 MB may be a little much when it comes to the filesize though.

    Converge: As with Deliverance, I don't think Invade is the best choice for a mode, but you have done well with it either way. Unlike said map, though, Converge is more defendable. The paths inside the base are good for catching up to attackers - on the other hand it's a little tight for competitive play (despite the open rooms... I think there are too many doorways). The base layout is simple enough though, and the mid is good as well. What I dislike is the short return time on the intel. It can easily ruin an attack and you'll have to be quick to go get it even after your enemy has dropped it. Class balance is nice - Engineers are actually able to defend pretty well, but I don't think they can ruin the game for any decent attacker. I think you did pretty good with the Gorge theme and the HL2 energy orb thing is just awesome. Too bad it sometimes get stuck in a loop that plays no matter where on the map you are. The optimization seems to be as good as it can get. I can't complain about anything here. Good job.

    Overlook: Overlook is one of those maps that play "just fine". It has a good layout in terms of paths and a nice middle, but there are some issues that keep me from enjoying it fully while playing. My problem is that the intel room is extremely hard to attack because when you're trying to get in you don't really have an advantageous position to fall back on - but defenders do. This gets even worse with Engineers. The outside is great though, it's a good fighting space for all classes. While I'm mildly disappointed in the gameplay, the style gets you points! This is the closest you get to a "perfect 7", due to how it fits the TF2 style and is full of small interesting details you can find if you look for them. By far the best looking map in the contest. The optimization is good. In terms of numbers of objects rendering at once it could be improved, the file size is pushing large, but overall good job.

    Bedrock: I really like the gully-based layout of Bedrock. There's the high, direct route where you meet the defenders head on, and the low sneaky route. Nothing more, but it works. I just dislike the placement of the spawn, since it's right behind the intel room. I like how well all classes work in this map, even Engineers can set up a good (penetrable) defense. There are open spaces for the "agile" classes and enclosed spaces where you can make a good defense. Feels good to play as any class. The gully I like so much also ties into the style scoring, of course. The Badlands look in general is very good, it just feels a little unpolished. Optimization seems... Just fine. It could be better but it's probably sufficent for most people.

    Wildfire: Wildfire is one of the most original maps in this contest. I must also add I'm impressed that you did this in such short time! Anyway, the layout is one of the reasons I call it original - The bridge, the spires and the areas around them are awesome. The paths through the map are simple but they work great (You really need to be on guard to catch Scouts going through the lower path though). I certainly can't complain about class balance, even offensive Engineers have something to do. I'm a little torn in my opinion on the touch return on the intel. Capping at the intel is a great and fun mechanic, but the fact that touching it returns it really decreases how often I see this capping method being used. I think it wouldn't need touch return. The style of the map is great, if a little sloppy in places (That's understandable). The whole wildfire theme is awesome, I love the sound (Which, unfortunately, tends to get bugged and play "in your head" if you know what I mean) and the ashes. Some more fire particles would have been awesome if only you'd had the time. Optimization is great but there is some weird fading and the file size is rather big at 65.7 MB.

    Fusion: The "intel fusion" of this map is great, especially since there is no touch return. It allows for some great strategy that stand out as the most fun I've had in TF2, so I'm glad you went with this mode. The layout is generally good in terms of paths and fun spaces for fights. I think the middle is too disconnected and flat, but other than that I think all classes have potential for doing well in this map. Now, I'm no fan of the snow theme but the industrial subtheme helps it somewhat (thank god it's not snowy-forest-alpine), and for what it is, you did a good job detailing it. It fits the TF2 style decently. The optimization is great, there's little to complain about except for a somewhat big file size at 51.1 MB.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  8. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    553
    Positive Ratings:
    102
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 4 5 5 6
    Landfall 5 3 5 6
    Stockpile 6 6 5 6
    Mercy X X X X
    Wiretap 4 4 6 6
    Deliverance X X X X
    Converge X X X X
    Overlook X X X 4
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire 4 6 5 6
    Fusion 7 6 6 5


    Cloudburst: Well, I really like playing this map in pub, but in comp it mostly becomes spawncampish. The snow is nice, but the cave is kinda bland.

    Landfall: Classes without special jumping abilities are doomed on this map. Scouts are gods!

    Stockpile: Nice and compact fun! The layout is nice, it forces both teams to stay on their toes. Heavies are usable here too, because the maps is so compact. Never really noticed any problems with optimization.

    Mercy:

    Wiretap: I've always found this map kinda mazey, actually. The bases seems a little complicated, and it's a little too confined for it's own good. I like the mid though. And you really nailed the spytech stuff! The optimization seemed fine too.

    Deliverance:

    Converge:

    Overlook: Sexual map!

    Bedrock:

    Wildfire: I like this map. The problem with the gameplay is that you have both touchreturn and cap-at-flag in it. Without the touchreturn the map would be much more exciting because the intelholder would have to join in on the attack. It works great in Fusion!

    Fusion: I really like this one. The cap-at-flag makes the map great fun. I can remember lots of intense situations on this map. Rated optimization 5 because I've experienced some low fps on the map.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  9. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

    Messages:
    1,242
    Positive Ratings:
    393
    Preface: I just want to say awesome work to everyone who participated in the contest, and especially to those who got this far! The turnout this year was amazing in comparison to the plr/ a/d ctf contest, and the majority of these maps are ones I liked! I wouldn't have minded one or two more months testing, sure, but I really did like the turnout this year :)

    NOTE: Just some score conversions for reference:
    Given Score Translated From Actual Value
    6.5 9 .929 pr 92.9%
    6.2 8.8 .886 or 88.6%
    6 8.5 .857 or 85.7%
    5.8 8 .828 or 82.8%
    5.5 7.5 .786 or 78.6%
    5 7 .714 or 71.4%
    4.5 6.5 .643 or 64.3%


    Scores Given:
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 6 6 5.5 6
    Landfall 6 5.8 6 6
    Stockpile 5.5 6 5 6
    Mercy 4.5 5.8 5.5 6
    Wiretap 6.5 6.5 6.8 4.5
    Deliverance 6.5 6.5 5.5 6
    Converge 5.5 5.8 6 6
    Overlook 6 6.5 5.8 6
    Bedrock 5 5.5 4.5 5.8
    Wildfire 5.8 6 6.5 6
    Fusion 6.2 6.5 6.5 6.2


    Cloudburst
    My main quarrel is even though this map is good, the overall layout feels square and generic. To elaborate: I felt the mid was boring insofar that it was incredibly simple with little articulation. The closer I got to spawn, the more interesting things became, but I always thought the middle could use more interesting geometry.

    Landfall
    Same deal with cloudburst in a lot of ways, but for different reasons. The bases were great, and I admired their design, and ease of navigation for nimble classes. The mid however was huge, and almost felt too huge and imposing.

    Stockpile
    The map was fun, no doubt, but generic. It was a re-hash of 2fort I felt like, and the desert theme has been done too much for me to really appreciate it. Side note: it was always wicked easy to cap.

    Mercy
    I didn't like the 'mercy' concept much, too much complexity for the gametype. The map was also tiny and one team always controlled the middle.

    Wiretap
    The theme is great, but I've seen it in scoville too. The map is still pretty big, and the flag room always got campy. This map feels much more pub then pug, and the optimization still brought my computer down to its knees whenever I looked across mid.

    Deliverance
    The map was always solid in terms of gameplay for me, definitely a favorite. The theme still feels underdeveloped though, like it could have used a bit of additional detail.

    Converge
    The theme was great, but the map had in my opinion, too many routes to mid, and that damned sound effect by the cap drove me crazy. Crazy. On a side note, because of the bases complexity, mid could often be counted as 'dead space' in the map.

    Overlook
    Solid map, the flag room got a bit campy, but the map was well designed and felt solid and reliable every time I played it.

    Bedrock
    This map could have been interesting, but it had some really deadly sightlines and amazing sentry spots that kind of killed the buzz. In general, it felt a bit underdeveloped.

    Wildfire
    I'll make short work of this one, lads :) Mixed love. Too big. Too many routes. Gorgeous theme. Props for the early finish. By the way, love it, love you, huge fan, love 2f2f. And yes, that is a reference. (cut off at the very end nooo)

    Fusion
    I like this map. I thought it was going to fail early on, but it got a lot of great testing, and now I like it. The only edgy thing is the gametype, and I have to give bonus points for the fire barrels.

    EDIT: Yes, yes out of 7, I got it, I got it. ty Wasted
     
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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  10. WastedMeerkat

    WastedMeerkat L3: Member

    Messages:
    144
    Positive Ratings:
    142
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 4 4 5 6
    Landfall 6 5 6 5
    Stockpile X X X X
    Mercy X X X X
    Wiretap 4 5 6 4
    Deliverance X X X X
    Converge X X X X
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire 3 5 6 5
    Fusion 6 5 6 5


    Cloudburst -

    I've always liked the look of this map, and I can see that it has potential. The thing that kills the gameplay is that there is no real funnel. The mid has a bunch of entrances all on the same plane, and there isn't an area you have to pass through to get to the other base. This also cuts into class involvement, because the scouts can just run in and out unless you have a well placed sentry or a soldier guarding the intel. The style is great, there aren't too many snow maps out there, and Aly really pulls it off well. The best thing about the map is the optimization. I have never had any major fps drops or slowdowns anywhere in this map!

    Landfall -
    I could tell from the early alphas that this map would be great. The gameplay is well rounded and the platform in the middle gives soldiers a great place to rocket jump up to and fire missiles down onto the people below; staying on high ground is essential in this map. There are some great scout jumps as well as rocket/demo jumps. The intel is pretty easy to cover with a sentry, but can be taken out with a demo or a soldier. In most matches, we get up to around 5 caps per team, if the balance is right. This makes the map feel more fast-paced, because in some ctf maps, your best bet is to nab the intel once or twice, then turtle the rest of the game. The style is very original, it's the first map to feature giant trees, which make the map feel more detailed. Before the trees were there, the map felt empty and barren. The optimization is pretty good, but I do sometimes get slow downs in the mid. Overall, a great map, as expected from the great Dr. Spud.

    Stockpile -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Mercy -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Wiretap -

    This map honestly works better for 12v12 pubs, rather than 6v6 competitive play. Some people say the bases are complicated, when they really aren't. After you see that there are only a grand total of 3 major areas in the base, it's really not that hard to understand where things are. I don't like that you can see the flag room from inside your spawn, as this allows Scottish Resistance demos to camp from a safe spot, but it really isn't that big a deal. The mid would be rather open if it weren't for the bridge in the middle breaking the sightline. You used to be able to sticky-jump all the way across the mid in two jumps, but some clipping fixed that. The rocks on the sides of the bridge used to be an easy route, but now it takes about as much time to climb them as it does to walk up the ramp on the other side and across the bridge. I've never been a big fan of the vent side route into the base. It's too easy, and it puts you into a too defensible position, whereas the front door puts you in the low ground, and is an ideal place to demo camp. The long way around into the base is the long way around, so it really just makes up for it that way. If you don't have a sentry in the flag room, a scout can run in and out almost too quickly, and you won't be able to chase him down in time because of all the turns inside the base. I always thought that the detailing of this map would turn out differently than it did. The rock walls were more prominent in the earlier alphas, but some of them were changed into concrete walls. That made it feel a little to clean for me, and the bases themselves feel just too clean. The optimization inside the bases is fine, but I do experience slowdowns in the mid a lot. Overall, I say the map could be great with some layout adjustments.

    Deliverance -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Converge -

    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Overlook -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Bedrock -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Wildfire -

    This map feels to scrunched up. The hill up to the intel could really be called a spire, which would be fine, if there wasn't so much clutter at the top. There isn't a good place for a sentry that isn't inside the tree, and it makes you feel like a cheater if you place it there. There isn't any place to hide on the intel spire, but I do like that you can easily take out a scout and return your intel before he has a chance to get to safety. The map feels very fast-paced because of this; there is a constant grabbing and dropping of the intel, and just touching the intel is invigorating. Given the right circumstances, you can take the intel back to your base. However, I think that touch return takes away from the experience of this map, and that the game can feel very slow-paced if the teams are balanced right. It really is kind of strange; I've seen the teams be balanced and the scoreboard high, but I've also seen them balanced and the scoreboard low. Because of this erratic gameplay, and the resulting inconsistency of the experience of this map, I have to give the gameplay a low score. The class involvement still is very good, and every class can find a place in this map, and each class can experience highs and lows. The style is very unique, and the first to use the forest fire concept. As I understand, the ash particles need to be flagged as weather in order to be visible again, and they really do add to the atmosphere. The optimization is good, considering that there are no really big open areas in this map. There are still some clipping issues, but I expect those and all the other problems to be fixed just as soon as Mangy gets back from his trip.

    Fusion -
    This was the first map to use the flag as the capture point, which can lead to some very interesting situations. If someone from BLU team brings the RED intel all the way back to the BLU base and drops it, the RED team can just pick up the BLU intel and cap it immediately. If you take the enemy intel, you must be confident you can get it all the way back to your base, and also trust that your team will defend your intel well. The flag rooms are very unique, because they have flat roofs with a hole in the top for demos and soldiers to fire down explosives, but the roofs are also very easy to flank. I very much like the layout of the map, and I notice that all areas of the map are utilized during a match. Every class can find a place to use their own unique abilities, and there is good fun to be had rocket jumping on top of the enemy base. Ravidge pulls off the snow look very well; it is more stormy and clouded up than Aly's Cloudburst, and the fog kinda reminds me of the opening of Fargo. Optimization could be better; I was having some bad choppiness anywhere outside of the spawn room. You could argue that I need a new computer, but I could argue that this is an old game, and that I can handle most maps with a decent framerate. I'll bet I could have turned off weather effects to increase my fps, but I didn't think of that until now. The map is great, and I expect it to do well in the contest.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  11. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,564
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 6 6 6 5
    Landfall 6 6 7 3
    Stockpile 5 5 5 6
    Mercy X X X X
    Wiretap 4 5 5 4
    Deliverance 6 6 5 5
    Converge 5 5 6 6
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock 4 6 5 4
    Wildfire X X X X
    Fusion X X X X


    These are weird criteria... i was expecting something along the lines of theme, aesthetics, gameplay and optimisation. gameplay and class involvement are the same thing... and style is an odd choice of words. I assume it means "is the theme unique and interesting"?

    Feedback:

    Cloudburst.
    Whilst this map tackles one of the two major CTF issues, that of having to pass the spawning locations to grab the intel, it leaves itself open to the more significant problem of spawn camping, with its major spawn exit on the wall facing a raised ledge with the objective nested behind it. Classes are fairly well balanced although sentry placement tends to be obvious. I find that there is a lot of waiting around in the intel room, waiting for your team to capture the flag so that you can make the next run, making the map seem smaller than it perhaps really is and spawn camping a more viable tactic in the mean time due to its position (mentioned earlier). The centre layout does a lot to break vis sight lines and optimise the maps performance but beyond that the layout is open despite affect on frame rates generally being negiligible, probably an affect from the lack of excessive details (not a bad thing).

    Landfall.
    Despite the intelligence location being directly opposite the spawn doors spawn camping tends to be minimal, probably partly due to the travel distance to return it and the danger of multiple ambush locations in the return journey. Each class has its role, although engineers tend to be seperated from the team, and so do spies. It gets my highest style mark due to its original theme but gets my lowest optimisation mark as its the only TF2 map to ever crash my computer. The centre is full of excess detail and is not well optimised in the layout beyond the centre either.

    Stockpile.
    This map is fairly basic, consisting largely of a centre box, with the bases either side consisting of a further 2 box like areas. Gameplay is repetitive and class roles seem to merge together in this space. Interesting vertical combat has been achieved at the expense of an interesting layout. Optimisation methods were obvious and unimaginative, but i can't mark it down because the job still gets done. Details have been well applied achieving a granary/2fort hybrid look.

    Wiretap.
    This map does well to avoid the classic CTF issues such as spawn location and spawn camping. But the layout splits up classes and players, diluting player density and combat. In addition to the number of sparcely populated exits makes for no significant choke point or defencive location, leaving teams with no specific rally point for attacks or defence. This makes grabbing the intel easy and escaping with it even more so. The result is the map playing out more repetitively than you might imagine. Optimisation in the layout design is also fairly poor with excessive vis sight lines from various locations on all sides of the central area. Given the most direct and safe route to the intelligence from a teams spawn in the opposite base, if the teams spawn waves were out of sync it would not be entirely unheard of for whole teams to miss each other as they enter and exit the same base.

    Deliverence.
    Deliverence had some interesting gameplay experiences although sentry positions were sparce and obvious and the path to capture the intelligence (although there were several), one in particular was more obvious than the others. The middle was something of a sniper fest due to the long sightlines and the layout wasn't exactly the best for optimisation, but it did pretty well with what it had. Gameplay was not overly repetitive but most exchanges were predictable. Classes could really set apart their perks which was a plus that many maps in the contest failed to achieve. Scouts, demo's and soldiers in particular. A good medic was essential to success on this map.

    Converge.
    Despite Converge's many height differences throughout the map they arn't entirely as exploitable in PUG matches as they are in public play. Inside combat tended to be head on with much blind firing around corners and down corridors whilst flanking manouvres would come directly from behind. Despite its small size and strict movement through corridors Converge's gameplay was not all that repetitive and has some well placed item drops that are essential (more so than other maps) to the gameplay. Corridors and corners lend to the maps good optimisation, which was obviously a fundamental key in the maps layout from the start.

    Bedrock.
    Despite its layout's basic appearence this map lends itself to unique combat experiences throughout the maps expanse, however the act of capturing the intelligence is repetitive. The sewer path was always the more obvious escape route and sometimes leant the map to easy steam rolls if the defending team were pushed back to their spawn. Optimisation was considered in the layout, although not achieved thoroughly a lack of excessive details reduces any potential impact on performance. Each class manages to serve their role quite effectively on the plus side which is a good achievement for such a small map.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  12. dang

    dang L1: Registered

    Messages:
    4
    Positive Ratings:
    13
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 4 4 6 5
    Landfall X X X X
    Stockpile 5 7 7 5
    Mercy 3 4 3 3
    Wiretap 7 7 7 6
    Deliverance X X X X
    Converge 3 3 1 5
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock 5 3 5 2
    Wildfire 5 6 7 6
    Fusion X X X X
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  13. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

    Messages:
    4,468
    Positive Ratings:
    1,682
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 5 6 6 3
    Landfall 5 5 6 3
    Stockpile 4 4 5 3
    Mercy 2 2 4 6
    Wiretap 4 5 6 4
    Deliverance 6 6 6 6
    Converge 5 5 5 6
    Overlook 4 4 7 4
    Bedrock 5 5 4 4
    Wildfire 6 6 6 6
    Fusion 5 5 3 3


    Cloudburst -
    Overall this is a very fun map and very well detailed map. However, it has alway held a very flat and liner feel. Overall it feels like all the classes have their place and can preform it as needed. Nevertheless, the is only real thing pulled this map down is a drop in FPS due to the aforementioned linearity.
    Landfall -
    Landfall to me is like one of those sweet and sour candies. It has great vertical game-play (mainly at mid) but if you happen to be on the underside your mince meat. Also the map looks really good but the FPS suffer along with. (I also noted the lack of func_detail on stuff) However, I do like the fact the map still manages to work even when the spawns are right on top on the Intel.
    Stockpile -
    Stockpile to me is like a dish that needs more then just the basics. Yes the detailing is very nice indeed but at the same time there is no spark at all. Its just flat. Also my FPS took a dive in some places around the map. Mainly the more open spots.
    Mercy -
    Ok I am going honest with you, the map is really dam small. Its not to small to be unplayable in 6v6 but I have no clue how this was able to run on 2f2f. The detailing is very nice but at the same time it lacks any real neutral ground. Also the Mercy rules feel like a crutch to hold up the map's size.
    Wiretap -
    Well congrats Void you finally got a map to b1. However, it has a few nagging problems. The main one being simply the number of ways to get around the base. You can enter from so many different angles it makes it easy and hard to defend at the same time. However, its nothing big enough to really break the map so to speak.
    Deliverance -
    First off I must say that I miss the moving cart and the fun it had but I understand you had to remove it for the balance. Moving one there is really no big complaints I have. The combat is fun and fast. The detailing is very nice and distinct. It only needs a bit more polish and its perfect.
    Converge -
    Psy is pie! We this map is like eating pie. A slightly burnt one at that but it still tases good. It plays like an well but it lacks anything really game-changing. Also the detailing feels off. In some places its really bland and in others its over the top. Nevertheless this is still one of the better maps.
    Overlook -
    When saw that first screenshot of B1 my jaw dropped to the floor. The detailing is crazy good. However, my FPS took at suck in the gut along with it. Sadly the fairs even worse. Not so bad that the map it is not fun to play on, it just feels very off.
    Bedrock -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Wildfire -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.

    Fusion -
    I'll need to play this map a little more before forming an opinion.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  14. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

    Messages:
    1,054
    Positive Ratings:
    462
    Somebody tell absurdistof it's out of 7.

    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 3 7 5 6
    Landfall 2 5 6 5
    Stockpile 3 3 3 6
    Mercy 1 3 4 6
    Wiretap X X X X
    Deliverance 5 5 7 5
    Converge 7 5 6 7
    Overlook 5 4 6 5
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire 4 5 6 4
    Fusion 5 6 6 6


    I don't have time, at the current time, to write huge, long reviews so I'm going to keep with scores and a few comments. Filesize doesn't really impact my reviews a) because I have quick internet, b) because I have a huge hard drive. (I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just being honest, and what's the point of a scoring scale if you don't use all the 7 points, relatively).

    Cloudburst
    I didn't enjoy either of the PUGs I played on this map very much, the matches themselves weren't very exciting and the map itself wasn't very dynamic or fun either. I did however, see every class used to great effect. It looks alright, it's good, solid detailing, nothing completely and utterly amazing, but good (and rainbow :O). Ran fine and dandy. I found the walking-on-metal sound effect on the ice disjarring.

    Landfall
    The layout just isn't very good. Sure it's got height-based gameplay that you want, but it's cramped height-based gameplay and I also believe that the height difference between the levels is too large. It felt awkward to play. On the flipside - it looks amazing, not perfectly amazing, but giant goddamn trees helps it. Didnt run too well on my old computer, and felt a teensy bit laggy on my super-duper new one, nothing gamebreaking though.

    Stockpile
    Stockpile is a bit too chaotic. The middle area is admittedly, a bit like Turbine in terms of size, but for some reason is a ton more deathmatchy. In fact, for me, the map played a bit too much like Turbine, albeit a more defensive version of Turbine - somehow, our team managed to win hardly leaving the intel area and just letting a scout grab their intel the entire time. It's bland and dull visually, a Granary theme without much of the character and always feels as if it's missing something.

    Mercy
    Mercy has a horrible layout and is horrible to play. The author may have been trying too hard to cater for the competitive audience and ended up making something which just isn't very fun and is incredibly shallow. I did see a lot of class involvement, though that may have been in no small part due to the boredom. It looks fine, but I don't really get what it's supposed to be.

    Rest is to come...
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  15. ANova

    ANova L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    415
    Positive Ratings:
    124
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst 4 7 5 6
    Landfall 4 5 4 X
    Stockpile X X X X
    Mercy 1 3 3 X
    Wiretap 5 4 2 X
    Deliverance 7 5 7 X
    Converge 4 5 2 5
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire 4 5 5 6
    Fusion 6 5 5 6
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  16. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

    Messages:
    1,774
    Positive Ratings:
    1,530
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 3 6 7 5
    Landfall X X X X
    Stockpile X X X X
    Mercy 1 2 2 3
    Wiretap 3 5 5 4
    Deliverance 6 7 6 5
    Converge X X X X
    Overlook X X X X
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire X X X X
    Fusion X X X X


    Mercy: ugh. hate it. too small. the "hook" was just a gimmick. didnt enjoy it at all. layout was pretty bad.

    Cloudburst: Pretty good. I just felt like I died way to often and nothing every got done. Tasks that were easy became hard (holding out yard/base). Easy tasks became easy (capping intel). It wasn't too bad. Layout was fairly good. I like mid, but battles, rarely happened there. :/

    Wiretap: only played this once, but played it for pretty long. It seemed overly complex, especially the base. Good class involvement. Just didn't enjoy it.

    Deliverance: enjoyed this one. good class involvement. great layout. not much to say. hording the intel is fun.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  17. littleedge

    aa littleedge L1111: Clipping Guru

    Messages:
    983
    Positive Ratings:
    573
    Note: I have promised many of the finalists that I'd clipcheck their map in return for their awesomeness in getting this far. I've been having internet problems and VAC and I don't get along well, so I haven't been able to play some of the maps, nor clipcheck any. I will try to clipcheck most of them, specifically if I already promised you I would.

    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst X X X X
    Landfall X X X X
    Stockpile X X X X
    Mercy X X X X
    Wiretap X X X X
    Deliverance X X X 5
    Converge X X X X
    Overlook X X X 2
    Bedrock X X X X
    Wildfire X X X X
    Fusion X X X 1


    Optimization: Since I have so little FPS, I have set up a basis for my vote: 13 fps = 7; 12 FPS = 6; 11 FPS = 6; 10 FPS = 5; 9 FPS = 4; 8 FPS = 3; 7 FPS = 3; 6 FPS = 2; 5 or less FPS = 1. This is why many maps have low Optimization scores.
    Style: I start you off with 5 points. If the map is overdetailed or lacking detail, points will be removed accordingly. If the map has something special that adds to it, you may earn one more point. To get 7 is to pull a Haarp or Vector.
    Class Involvement: I start you off at 5 points. If a Demoman, Soldier, Medic, or Scout is exceptionally powerful, or overpowered in your map, you lose a point. I'll be basing my additions or subtractions on competitive play - that means a pyro or a heavy must also be able to do well, and an engineer cannot lock up a base.
    Gameplay: I start you off at 4 points. If the structure of the map (or any gamemode modifications) impacts my enjoyment, you will gain or lose points accordingly.

    So expect few 7s
     
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  18. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

    Messages:
    1,705
    Positive Ratings:
    1,467
    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 4 4 4 5
    Landfall X X X X
    Stockpile 6 6 4 3
    Mercy 1 1 4 7
    Wiretap X X X X
    Deliverance 6 5 2 5
    Converge - - - -
    Overlook 4 5 7 1
    Bedrock 4 5 2 1
    Wildfire X X X X
    Fusion 5 5 3 7


    Cloudburst
    A map that pulls off the snow theme well and generally looks very pretty but unfortunately the layout is odd as the intel room is pushed to one side and the area between the mid and spawn is very large and lateral which creates unfocused and sporadic gameplay.

    Stockpile
    My favourite map in the competition that plays great under both pub and comp settings. Visually it's boring but Hanz has nailed the Granary theme to a certain degree. Optimisation is what lets the map down as a large part of the middle area is rendered from within each base and vice-versa.

    Mercy
    It may look nice but Mercy is small and cramped; 2 things every TF2 map should aspire not to be. Seemingly scaled for Counter-Strike, it's a truly awful map making it the perfect textbook example of how not to design a level for TF2. Avoid at all costs.

    Deliverance
    Brilliant. Just brilliant. It may be the most visually unappealing map but the gameplay is simply fantastic and it's well optimised too!

    Overlook
    The most beautiful map of the competition that unfortunately suffers from a few gameplay problems. The main problem is mid; It looks great on paper but in reality the 2 main entrances into the base are too far apart. People coming out will always take the entrance closest to the bridge so naturally attackers trying to make their way in take the entrance at the far end. It creates very predictable gameplay that is incredibly frustrating when people leaving the base can flank you so easily from behind. And it's both the lack of varied options and the predictability of it that really lets the map down which I find to be a real shame.

    Bedrock
    Fun, fun, fun. I've never had a boring game on this and for a first map, it's truly excellent with its varied paths in and out of the base that offer plenty of options. Visually it's average and the optimisation...well, there isn't much...but overall a solid map.

    Fusion
    Pretty, pretty good. Pretty good. I've enjoyed this a lot more since Rav's tightened the middle and the cap-at-flag mechanic - whilst confusing at first - is actually a really fun and interesting mechanic. The theme is a bit bland and everything seems a little dull and flat compared to other TF2 maps but it has potential. Generally, nothing short of a great map.
     
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  19. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

    Messages:
    879
    Positive Ratings:
    802
    I might toy with the scores some more. I tried to stay away from "lolawesome10/10" scores, but keep the scores sensible in relation to each other. Also I gave everything a 6 for optimization because I didn't have FPS problems on any map.

    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Cloudburst 4 4 5 6
    Landfall - - - -
    Stockpile 4 5 3 6
    Mercy 3 4 5 6
    Wiretap 4 5 5 6
    Deliverance 5 6 3 6
    Converge 5 7 6 6
    Overlook 2 2 4 6
    Bedrock 4 6 2 6
    Wildfire 6 7 5 6
    Fusion 3 4 7 6


    Cloudburst
    Cloudburst is a decent map. I don't look at the layout and see problems with it. And I like that a lot of battles happen on either side of the map, and that neither team gets locked in their base. But what I see is a map that just plays it safe. The layout is flat, and none of the paths are terribly interesting. It works, but I also don't remember any battles being particularly memorable. It also never really hooked my attention on the intel. Single players would run in and grab it, and not too much teamwork or coordination was going on.

    Stockpile
    This map plays decently as well. More-so than other maps it tries to make its layout interesting, with height-variations all over the place. But the map never locked-together for me. I didn't feel much strategic-incentive to choose one path over the other, and for whatever reason the battles never got big and exciting. We would generally have a kind of uniform battle in the middle through the whole round, occasionally moving closer to one side or the other. The intel at least came into play frequently, with intel-runs not happening all the time, but still popping up often enough. It's a good map, but still kind of average.

    Mercy
    It's a decent map that was made incredibly tiny. So much spam. It's not awful spam, but it just has such a large quantity of spam that it gets tiring. I feel kind of brain-dead by the end of a round on this map. There's not much thought that goes into playing it, just run out there and start shooting.

    Wiretap
    This map never really turned from an "alright" map into a "great" map. I have to give it credit for being a fun little map in public play. For what the map is, it works. But it is one of the worst offenders in terms of gameflow. The big pushes through middle just don't happen, neither do concentrated efforts to grab the enemy intel. The teams get pretty spread out around the map, with lots of individual battles, but no great feeling of teamwork. I don't dislike it, but at the same time it really didn't standout to me.

    Deliverance
    I'm not a fan of 1 flag invade. But you know, deliverance incorporates the gamemode into its layout pretty well. The map has good ideas in the layout, and I had many genuinely interesting and fun games on it. Unfortunately, the layout only sometimes worked; for every couple good game I played, I had another that was kind of mediocre. It just wasn't consistent enough. But the high points were high, so I give the map ample credit for that.

    Converge
    A well put-together map. The layout was fun (with the exception of the area right by the caps - those were questionably-spammy). But while I think this layout is more solid than deliverances, I also didn't enjoy the 1 flag gamemode as well as I did in deliverance. Unlike deliverance for instance, if the team with the flag is getting pushed back, they're in an awkward position where they don't want to stay in mid (they get killed), but they also don't want to fall back (they take the intel closer to the enemy's cap).

    Overlook
    Sorry overlook, your layout is really weak. The map pans out like this: one team pushes the other back into their base early-on. They've got way too many ways to attack, and the defenders aren't left with good options of pushing out. A lot of shooting commences. CTF maps aren't suppose to feel like A/D on dustbowl. :\

    Bedrock
    Bedrock has a surprisingly good layout. It's filled with great things, like exciting pushes from mid into the enemy base, or a hole in the roof of the intel room that gives you the drop on sentries. Very rarely does the map leave you with no important decision to make. But it's held-back by its shabby appearance. Graphics are important. An above-average layout is a great start, but the map needs a few more iterations before I'd really want to start requesting it on servers.

    Wildfire
    I think Wildfire plays the best overall. I think so for one BIG REASON - something that most maps missed by a long-shot: the intel is the center of attention. Throughout an entire game on wildfire, I can actually keep focusing on the flag. There isn't 15 minutes of neither flag being touched; the flag carriers can be stopped (touch return is questionable, but I'll take it over impossible-to-guard flags); and I don't lose interest partway through, look down and go "oh how did those 3 caps happen?" Sure the layout is somewhat cramped, and nothing in the map blows me away, but it's the only map that consistently gave me a solid round of CTF, as opposed to a round of TF2 which loosely had to do with flags.

    Fusion
    Fusion is the coolest looking of the maps. Unfortunately it's on the weaker-end of the gameplay scale. It reminded me of the official CTF maps. It's big, you have to cover a long distance to get the enemy flag, and there will certainly be an annoying sentry camping the flag. Sure, the fact that the map is big isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it's also a pretty uninteresting layout. Take middle for example: 90% of the fighting happening here takes place on flat ground, and this is the highest-traffic location of the map. :\ Fusion left me pretty disappointed after every match.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  20. Geal

    Geal L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    162
    Positive Ratings:
    56
    Yet to test optimization on any of the maps, that'll come later.

    Maps Gameplay Class Involvement Style Optimization
    Clouburst X X 5 X
    Landfall 5 6 6 X
    Stockpile 5 6 4 X
    Mercy 2 4 6 X
    Wiretap 4 4 6 X
    Deliverance 5 6 6 X
    Converge 6 6 6 X
    Overlook 6 4 6 X
    Bedrock 6 6 3 X
    Wildfire X X X X
    Fusion X X X X


    Clouburst
    I don't feel I've played enough of this map to accurately rate its gameplay/class balance. However, I do like the style. I've always been fond of the snow theme, and your spin on it is welcome.

    Landfall
    I've got mixed feelings about this map. It's a fun map, but the large difference between height levels puts soldiers, demos, and scouts at a pretty high advantage. Otherwise, class balance is pretty good - most classes do at least okay on this map. I really like the unique theme, but everything looks fairly samey.

    Stockpile
    A fun map. That's about it - it's pretty average. It's fun, but nothing special. It did seem to welcome classes very well though. It seemed a little bare on the details to me, and again seemed pretty standard.

    Mercy
    Way too small, way too spammy, and way too campy. I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already, but god are sentries annoying on this map. On the plus side, it looks pretty great.

    Wiretap
    Pretty good. I'm not crazy about how easily camped some areas are with sentries, but overally it's good. Tends to kinda stalemate into people deathmatching in the center. Class balance is okay too. I really like the detailing and theme though.

    Deliverance
    I've played a lot on this map, and it's pretty fun. Decent layout, great class involvement. The details are a little lacking, but I love the great displacements and natural bits.

    Converge
    I really like this map. Gameplay is fun, but a lot of the map is arbitrarily winding corridors, and you can kind of rush the point from the center. The layout isn't great, but it's still really fun. Class involvement seemed standard - scouts had a pretty easy time capping, and spies had a pretty annoying cap blocking exploit with the C&D.

    Overlook
    Another map I really like, even though the layout isn't great. It gets a been spammy and campy, but the gimmick with the capped intels appearing at base made the map a lot of fun - I found myself wanting to cap just to see where the next intel would show up, and as the game went on it gave a visual representation of how good your team was doing - it was pleasing to see a giant mountain of intels at your base while the enemy only has a teeny pile. Although it's a small addition, I think it's a really great idea that helps motivate players to get the intel, even if they don't really notice it. The detailing looks great too. The camping and spam hurts some of the lighter classes though.

    Bedrock
    I really like this map. plays well in comp, and in pub (if a bit spammy in pub). The layout works well and the gameplay is fun - there's a shocking lack of health and ammo in the middle though. The main downside to the map is the lack of details - the map is pretty damn bare.

    Wildfire
    I don't feel I've played enough of this map to accurately rate it.

    Fusion
    I don't feel I've played enough of this map to accurately rate it.
     
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