Community Project [Concept]

[Zwiffle]

I imagine we can start fleshing out sub-themes for each point once we've decided on Alpine assuming we decide on Alpine. For example, A<>B is a lumberyard, B<>C a mine, etc, and really we could go about it a couple ways:

i) We start fleshing out everything all at once, the first mapper doing largely a very rough layout of the whole map, some sealing, some rough initial lighting, and each mapper there after does a little bit of everything to improve the map.

ii) One mapper starts one level, gets more robust geometry in place, refines it, tests it to make sure it works/is balanced to a rough degree, refines, etc until his time is up. The next mapper works off one of those points to another point, expanding the spawn location a little bit, etc, until the whole map is roughed in.

iii) We all collaborate on a layout, all agree to a layout, vote on layouts for each point, then jigsaw the layouts together into a Frankenstein kind of thing, then work based on a mostly-agreed-upon-layout, in whatever area they wish. If they want to work on the rough layout of A<>C they can, if they want to start detailing B<>E they can, because we all have a common blue print to work from.

iv) Each week we call a vote of what to do next, and the mapper goes about working on fulfilling that (those) task(s). "Refine this area, balance that area, re-light whatever." then SiniStarR or whoever goes about doing that, regardless of what they really want to do.

v) Some combination of these.

I personally feel a combination of ii and iv with a teensy bit of iii thrown in would be best. It seems the most fluid yet the most organized.

None of these areas will make everyone happy, so everyone should prepare for a bit of disappointment. But of course, if a certain isn't up to snuff, we can call a vote to rework an area until it looks professional, or at least good enough so we can work on other areas of the map.

If there's anything I missed out, criticize and offer your own suggestions. This will be no easy task of course.

Edit: Edited because I missed Terr's post - I assumed since it was TC the stages would not be symmetrical. That's one of the draws for TC imo. Let's call a vote!

 

[Jamini]

I was more thinking about us determining what each stage will BE and then allowing the individual mappers to design the areas. TC is (fortunately) a very modular mode, meaning we do not necessarily need to know exactly what the layout of each stage is before starting on it, so long as we manage to successfully connect the parts.

Initially I'm thinking of allowing two mappers to work on entirely separate portions of the map (RED and BLU bases, and the crossover point.) Once those three segments are finished we can build the connected spawn areas. Once that is finished we could build the four remaining outer points. (The smallest KOTH areas)

Example:

The 1 zones would be finished(Just the layout!) first. They could even be build independently of each other so long as the detailers try to keep a consistent style between them. Once the 1 zones are finished the 2 zones would be done one at a time to link the first finished zones together (as well as provide the basic routes for the four remaining zones.

Once the 1 + 2 areas are finished, the final zones (the outer KOTH arenas) could be finished. As the first zones, more than one of these could be done at a time since the entrance and exit points for these areas will already be known.

If somebody has an idea for a layout of a specific zone, feel free to post it. Sketches, building ideas, or even example VMFs can greatly speed our mappig in this area. If an idea is liked well enough, it's much more likely that the person posting it will be given that area (OR somone else can do it for them, as the case may be)

 

[Artesia]

I'm not going to read this entire thread to see if anyone else has suggested this. But a project like this would need to be handled in more of a production type strategy.

Divide up the stages of the map development into various sections.

Layout Design & brushwork
Displacements
Texturing & custom Textures
Props & custom models
lighting
Skybox and environment
Detail props and textures
Entities
Optimization

or something to that effect.

Next the project needs a Art Director. This could be voted upon or come up with a way to decide.

Then each "Department" has a director, this person coordinates what his team will be working on with the Art Director, and splits the work among the team. This very well could be the only person in that "department". IE boojum being the only one to touch entities on the map for example...

Each person's work is not kept in the same .vmf, but seperately, and combined by the art director (or someone else) once it is approved.

Depending on how many people wanted to be involved, the person/people who do the Design layout and brushwork (which must be done prior to other steps) might go on to do say the displacements.

I think setting something like this up would be ideal. You do need 1 person in charge, that can coordinate and approve things, if you just pass a .vmf around it could be mayhem. Also this better represents real world productions (not necessarily mapping, but work on movies, games etc.)

This also allows multiple avenues of the map to be created simultaneously, allowing many hours of detail and optimization to be done at the same time as the entities and lighting, and should lead to a better product that all those involved would be credited for.

 

[Jamini]

One of my biggest pet peeves are people who suggest things without reading the discussion.

It's already been addressed that we will be creating the map in stages. While I'm not going to go around dictating "department heads", I will be divvying up the work among the volunteers according to preference, ability, and necessary remaining work in that order.

As I stated in my last post, there is a good amount of work that can be done concurrently (portions of the map layout that are not interconnected, for example. My very last post!) and I do intend for us to have some overlap between individual work.

As for the .vmf. Each version will be made available for people to look at and edit freely. The official version will be posted at the top of the map thread when the appropriate time comes to release it (pre-alpha, most likely.)

Artesia, I understand your concern and I thank you for your ideas. I hope it gives you peace of mind to know that I already had plans for a similar system already underway.

~Jami

 

[Artesia]

I was just throwing my 2 cents in.

might I recommend you edit and maintain the first post in the thread. I always find that keeping the first post updated to the latest updates is easier for people, so they don't have to sift through 10 pages of posts to see where things lie.

I don't have time to sift through the entire post, but am not opposed to becoming involved in such a project, and was posting my suggestions to see if I would actually want to become involved.

 

[Jamini]

What is the timeline of this project?

As in all creative ventures, timelines are very nebulous things when regarding community projects. As of now, I only have a rough outline of how the map will be developed, and no dates are yet specified (if any will ever be!).

Outline -

Planning
-Style Determination
-Setting Determination
-Game mode Determination
-Map Goals (our goals as mappers with this particular map)
-Basic Layout

Design
-Basic layout (ground, sky, skybox, walls, large props, dev lights, dev textures)
-Game Entities (spawns, respawn rooms, doors, spawn cabinets, carts, capture points)
Design + Play-test
-Advanced layout (bridges, scaffolds, smaller props)
-Basic Lighting
-etc

Detail
Optimize

I have nothing more to say on the issue. We will further develop the timeline as we progress through the project. Currently we need to finish the planning stage before even considering moving onto the next step.

Currently Swamp, Snowy Alpine, And Spytech are heading the theme polls. I was wondering how everyone felt about combining themes for different sections of the map (So parts of it would be alpine with bits of snow at the higher elevations, while the lowlands would use swamp textures and water. Spytech could easily be used for the final bases, etc.)

 

[Inqwel]

Having a little bit of trouble telling which of the spots on the layout are the control points. I figure 1's are, but what about 2s and 3s?

 

[Zwiffle]

1s are the "separate" control points, ie the middle and the two finals.
2s are the spawn areas
3s are the intermediate control points

 

[SiniStarR]

I have nothing more to say on the issue. We will further develop the timeline as we progress through the project. Currently we need to finish the planning stage before even considering moving onto the next step.

Currently Swamp, Snowy Alpine, And Spytech are heading the theme polls. I was wondering how everyone felt about combining themes for different sections of the map (So parts of it would be alpine with bits of snow at the higher elevations, while the lowlands would use swamp textures and water. Spytech could easily be used for the final bases, etc.)

I disagree with swamp along with the alpines. Ive never heard of a swamp being near a mountains, and I think it wouldnt flow right, with the rest of the theme.

I do love your alpine and snow alpine idea though that is a great idea i tip my hat

 

[Jamini]

They fit better than you think:

 

[SiniStarR]

ah alright, maybe it's the way i was thinking swamp. When I see swamp I think, the majority of Swamp Contest submissions.

Btw I got your PM, im writing back atm.

 

[Zwiffle]

Does that kind of swamp necessitate use of the Swamp theme assets? It seems we can use a lot of the normal stuff already provided in Alpine/Snow-Alpine to create those kinds of swamps, since they look to be primarily just snow or Alpine with some water around them.

 

[SiniStarR]

well your right, but I think that it would be wise to have the swamp pack regardless, since it would give us more stuff to work with. I think the ground textures especially from the swamp pack would work wonders.

Oh ya should we have a vote on what team gets what side of the map? So does Red own the snowy areas and does blu own the swamp/alpine area? Vise-Versa? Other ideas? Thoughts?

 

[Jamini]

I dunno, RED seems like it's building style would fit far better with the "lowland" areas (swampy), while BLU would look great against a rockier alpine area (because of the orthographic design style.)

Either way I do feel that the final points should be heavily spytech.

 

[ANova]

Isn't TC and Koth almost the same
guys now come on it should be something like payload or plr we don't see them anymore

 

[Jamini]

Isn't TC and Koth almost the same
guys now come on it should be something like payload or plr we don't see them anymore

Trust me when I say they are NOTHING like one another.

 

[Acumen]

just wanted to say, that if you guys should need any custom models, i'd be happy to be of any help
just shout out
I'll keep an eye on the progress of this project, cause it'll be very interesting to see your progress !

 

[UKCS-Alias]

Isn't TC and Koth almost the same

Its totaly diffirent. Koth doesnt stalemate as there is allways a winner. it can take some time before the central point is taken but at least its alot easier then taking an enemy point in hydro.

guys now come on it should be something like payload or plr we don't see them anymore

I made a TC PLR concept so that one can allways be made. But atm it has a few bugs. I know how to fix them but didnt bother about it yet.

 

[Zwiffle]

There are a lot of payload and plr maps out there - I believe the main contest is providing a lot of solid looking plr maps actually. TC+KotH afaik has never been done before, and most people tend to agree that they make a good combination with each other, at least in theory. They're like the peanut butter and jelly of game modes, so to speak.

As for which side fits with what, I think the snow+alpine should be between the northern bases - mainly because while I want each stage to be asymmetrical I don't want either side to have a huge height advantage, so making the "mountain" map where both sides start at the base and fight upwards would make a bit of sense. The eastern/western stages I imagine to be normal alpine, and the southern stage probably swamp/alpine. The middle would also probably be a swamp/alpine hybrid, but who knows. This way, assuming red gets east and blu gets west or vice versa, they both share themes, neither gets too much of a height advantage, etc.

The transition can be expressed around the spawn areas of course, the northern corner spawns can be part alpine with a little bit of snow, the southern spawns can be alpine with a little bit of swamp.

 

[Jamini]

I've talked with SinistarR, and he is going to be our first mapper working on layout (in conjunction with our RED and BLU base coordinators, yet to be determined.) He has chosen to begin work on the central point.

If you have any ideas for individual points (layout, thematic job, or particular gameplay focuses) feel free to post them.