Citizen's Vote - Second Time Extension

[Jack Riguel]

This here's taken from the contest judgeing section:

1. Gameflow: Are signs properly used, and not overwhelming? Do the various pathways make sense? Are spawns timed properly to create battles in the right areas? Are travel times acceptable? Is there good use of playerclipping? (can't get to areas outside the map).
2. Balance: Do RED and BLU stand an even chance of winning the map? Is there a fair contest for each control point? Can each class hold their own in the map? Is any one overpowered or underpowered? Is there a good distribution of health and ammo kits?
3. Detailing: Is the map intricate and beautiful? Is there a high level of polish to the map?
4. Optimization: Is there any lag during major fights? Did the mapmaker spend time improving framerates? Were func_details, areaportals, hints properly implemented? (Note: a map would not be penalized for lacking one of these components if it runs well irregardless) Small factor: Did the mapmaker try to keep filesize reasonable- lightmap optimizations, etc?
5. Style: Does the map fit the style of TF2? Do the individual detailing choices make the map feel put together, or discordant? Is the environment visually pleasing?

While it seems crude, I actually don't even see anything that states the map will get marked down if it's not playable. Granted, an unplayable map would mostly fail flow-wise, but that's only one section of the other five judging sections. And I really doubt that the judges would be such jerks as to mark you down for a issues that is known in the mode because Valve hasn't properly fixed it yet.

 

[DontWannaName]

I dont see why it has to be a contest. Why not make it a deadline for beta

 

[YM]

I dont see why it has to be a contest. Why not make it a deadline for beta

Ok, you have to have a beta of a TC map by this time next year, thats masses of time


I bet not a single person will have completed that task.


:facepalm:

 

[Jack Riguel]

Ok, you have to have a beta of a TC map by this time next year, thats masses of time


I bet not a single person will have completed that task.


:facepalm:

Sounds more like a race, or a marathon. :/

 

[Randdalf]

I think the reasoning here is, if there's no extension, there won't be half as many maps ready for the judging phase.

 

[Fraz]

the problem is, what constitutes a map as ready for the judging stage? Surely the authors would LOVE to release it to rc before it got judged, yet they have just over a week until the second extension is up. Judging isn't primarily based on looks, even if it is 1/5 of the marks, the rest could be made up with exquisite gameplay, flow etc.

Also, the vote seems that more people want this contest finished, and not to become drawn out and drawn out. Deadlines are made for a reason.

 

[Wegason]

No extension

I think the reasoning here is, if there's no extension, there won't be half as many maps ready for the judging phase.

I think this is silly, mappers should submit their maps even if its a late alpha as its going to get a lot of useful feedback and they've worked on it towards the contest.

Nightfall is likely to have an incomplete stage 3 (by the way Psy, pretty sure your submission must include this to count as its part of the rules, so you cannot just submit the first two stages).

I'm not going to mark it down for that, because stage 1 and 2 are beautiful and we know how stage 3 will look detailed once finished, and because stage 1 and 2 play so terrifically well.

Even if the maps are not in beta most of the ones still going are very playable and enjoyable, and those detailed look very nice.

 

[grazr]

Ok, you have to have a beta of a TC map by this time next year, thats masses of time

I bet not a single person will have completed that task.

So... tempting.. to.. surprise...

 

[Armadillo of Doom]

I have been following this thread rather closely, and I sincerely appreciate the debate Another thing to keep in mind that is that all of the events we do here at TF2M (with the possible exception of Gameday), are still rather new to everyone. It's a learning experience as much for me and the staff as it is for the community. Our first contest lasted something like 3 months, with only three entries. I never submitted mine and Mangy's was broken, lol. The payload contest ran for 3.5, with a lot of people getting burned b/c of time and the single prize making other entries more intimidating

The second extension for this contest, while very significant, also came close to the original deadline; so I imagine a few people dropped out b/c of that as well. In addition, returning to work/school really eats into your mapping time. That said, our current major contest will not be getting another extension. We've had 5 solid months, and there are a great number of promising wips I hope will get submitted However, our next prize-awarding mapping contest is much sooner than you think. The community continues to grow, so we're doing more stuff more often. Don't be surprised if you begin to see some overlap as early as next year

 

[Hanz]

I'd still like a week / 2 weeks extension. There are a lot of mappers who can't map a lot on weekdays because of school. I can hardly map 1 hour after school per weekday.. I'm not beta yet with Panamint, and I know that I won't get a beta done before the contest deadline.

 

[Jack Riguel]

How about this. We close this one on the date given, take what we learned, and amend it to the new contest next year. Specifically: A longer deadline, a contest with modes that aren't new/unused/buggy, and focus the judging more on the design rather then on the looks (although not discrediting the looks at the same time).

From re-reading this thread the biggest thing people seem to be upset about is that they won't be able to get a "pretty" version out in time. I know my input to the judging will only be a small vote in the popular poll, but I will say that is my favourite so far hasn't even reached beta yet. I find that the funniest maps aren't thoughts that are overly detailed, but are those that just have a great layout and flow nicely... not to mention are both fun to play seriously and jokingly.

 

[gamemaster1996]

Agreed

 

[Ankh]

Maybe have a certain criteria for alpha/beta/rc maps, where gameplay is more important on alpha, and other elements come into the judging more as you go to beta/rc

Final scores could be given using a weighted average
so at alpha it could be
graphics 10% gameplay 60% detail 10% optimization 10% balance 10%
beta could have
graphics 15% gameplay 40% detail 15% optimization 15% balance 15%
rc could be
graphics 20% gameplay 20% detail 20% optimization 20% balance 20%

so everything evens out as you go along. I'm not saying these are perfect percentages, gameplay should probably remain higher, but it'd be a way of judging maps at varying stages of development evenly.
Separate brackets would also work

 

[A Boojum Snark]

That will never work. There is no way to come to an agreement on what defines alpha or beta, which is actually a borderline issue of this thread in the first place.

 

[Ravidge]

Deadlines should mean something. We had one extra month (which was kinda needed, new gamemodes and whatnot)...

Just make the best of the situation, release a honest entry that reflects what you envisioned the map to be, finished or not.

I know for certain I won't make beta, but that won't stop me, I want the free exposure that comes with the competition!

 

[Tinker]

Leave it as it is, but allow everyone to enter the contest.

 

[Dr. ROCKZO]

If you haven't entered now, it's too late. And if you haven't done all the work that the people with Beta's out have, you're probably not going to win. Not to sound pessimistic, but Alpha maps won't have as high of a chance at winning as the Polished Betas do, nevertheless, yes, allow everyone with an entry to enter (I was under the impression that this was how it was going to work anyways?)