2fort

[captainAngry]

If the last CP is in the basement, are you going to make the primary spawn room the basement spawn room? If so, it is too close to the second (courtyard) point since it would be about equal to the second and the last.

If you use the regular spawn points, they shouldn't be active until after your team caps the fourth (courtyard again) point.

Opening up the sewer to the fifth point (basement) is dangerous because it makes it easier and faster to get to the fifth point than the fourth point (courtyard).

5 point CP maps need to have a clear start to end. Usually the spawn is at the end with one or two forward spawns. You are putting two points into a single base and making both the 4th and 5th points equally defensible/attackable. This will change the flow from

1 2 3 4 5
to
1 2
3
4 5

If you really want to make the changes you are planning on and really have a vested interest in this map, make it so that the attacking team can cap the courtyard and the basement after they capture the bridge. Don't move the spawns to the default ctf_2fort spawns until after either the basement or courtyard is capped. Optimize the basement to make sense with a sewer entrance. Rework the courtyard and the bridge (think warpath) so that it looks like a CP is supposed to be there.

That's what it will take to make a good CP map out of ctf_2fort with the ideas you are suggesting. Besides detailing, you might find it would take longer to rework the valve map then to make your own, but what do I know.

 

[Ravidge]

Not to mention all the little bits that go into a full TF2 map, it's just more likely to get finished if the layout and basic structure are there.

"We" (on this forum) all know about this, it's one of the first things you notice when making your first map. It's a lot more work than just making a floor and some walls.

The people who really wants to create maps will adapt to that situation. A big mistake is to try and make a FINAL product from start, you will get overwhelmed by the amount of content/work/time you have to put into it. So you should start small, with large ugly dev textured buildings, simple geometry.

Then there are the mappers who doesn't want to spend more than a week on a project. For them, decompiled maps is a perfect resource. And now with valves release of the vmfs a whole new bunch of people are going at it.

I also agree with boojums comments about 2fort being a really bad choice...

My suggestion to you is: Make your own map. In devtextures, large square blocks, simple lighting. Just like the many alpha1 releases you see on this forum. It can have a similar layout to 2fort if you like to.
The main differance is that you have full control of the map and can make changes where nesseccary without mucking about with all the detailwork. It's also a completely original work that you can call your own. And avoid all the comments about "recompiling valve maps".

If your best excuse is "I'm lazy" I really think this forum/site/hobby isn't for you.

 

[StoneFrog]

I don't endorse these Valve edits, but some advice:

I feel the middle CP is rather cramped being on the bridge. You could perhaps (this would also help player circulation, something that's really important for CP maps) make a second bridge and put each further to the sides of the water, with the point in the middle resting on a platform or something.

 

[magic646]

I think another way out of the water is a bad idea


I disaprove of this map.


FAIL

 

[Warchamp7]

I don't endorse these Valve edits, but some advice:

I feel the middle CP is rather cramped being on the bridge. You could perhaps (this would also help player circulation, something that's really important for CP maps) make a second bridge and put each further to the sides of the water, with the point in the middle resting on a platform or something.

I was actually thinking of almost this exact idea

 

[Void]

Warchamp, I am Disappoint.

 

[Smashman]

"We" (on this forum) all know about this, it's one of the first things you notice when making your first map. It's a lot more work than just making a floor and some walls.

The people who really wants to create maps will adapt to that situation. A big mistake is to try and make a FINAL product from start, you will get overwhelmed by the amount of content/work/time you have to put into it. So you should start small, with large ugly dev textured buildings, simple geometry.

Then there are the mappers who doesn't want to spend more than a week on a project. For them, decompiled maps is a perfect resource. And now with valves release of the vmfs a whole new bunch of people are going at it.

I also agree with boojums comments about 2fort being a really bad choice...

My suggestion to you is: Make your own map. In devtextures, large square blocks, simple lighting. Just like the many alpha1 releases you see on this forum. It can have a similar layout to 2fort if you like to.
The main differance is that you have full control of the map and can make changes where nesseccary without mucking about with all the detailwork. It's also a completely original work that you can call your own. And avoid all the comments about "recompiling valve maps".

If your best excuse is "I'm lazy" I really think this forum/site/hobby isn't for you.

This speaks the words of God.

I'm in exactly the same position as yourself.
New to mapping.
I however am working at it, with my own map. Not a decompiled edit to a previous map.
This way I can feel proud when someone says "Wow, this map is cool."
And learn while I making this.
Seriously, make your own map, out of dev textures and blocks. It's the only way to learn.

 

[Don]

Valve maps should only be an open ressource whiole you are mapping. One of the many maps you have openned with every single ABS library. Valve maps are perrect as they are, you don't need to change their game mode, nor their skyboxes. To be honest, I vomit at modded maps cause they,re unorignial and very useless to the community cause they have a slight 0.001% chances to become official. Make your own maps, step by step, you, then, based on your skills, have something like from 0 to 50% chances of making your map official, like Hoodoo.

Work your way out of fricken edits and start mapping like a men. Editing is to learn, please don't post any edits arround here no more. Visit FPSB, they love it and eat edited maps for breakfast, Mostly since Vlave maps release.

Oh and... Not locked yet?

 

[mtv22]

A CP push on this map would seem a lot better than CTF. Although, it's unbalanced, red only has 1 point and blu has 2.

And to everybody who feels they must put their opinion out there even though it's been stated many times already, we don't really care if you disapprove of this map, in fact I couldn't care any less which maps you approve and disapprove of.

 

[BrokenTripod]

Well, no - I don't think any other way out of the water is a good thing.

The water is supposed to feel like one of those sneaky ways that exist in a map...yet is a deathtrap if watched correctly.
Providing a way out of the water in the middle is a complete smack in the face to everything that 2Fort is supposed to be.

Then again I'm one of those people who think the roof over the bridge is a smack in the face to 2Fort...

Sorry if someone said this already:

Actually fun fact is that in TFC, with grenades, any class could get out of the water if they had enough health. Scouts with the concussion grenades could make it out unharmed, too.

But yeah, I don't know if I like this. I'd probably try it out, though, just because I miss 2fort (Since my TFC days).

 

[Warchamp7]

This speaks the words of God.

I'm in exactly the same position as yourself.
New to mapping.
I however am working at it, with my own map. Not a decompiled edit to a previous map.
This way I can feel proud when someone says "Wow, this map is cool."
And learn while I making this.
Seriously, make your own map, out of dev textures and blocks. It's the only way to learn.

I've made dev maps before, I'm not a noob to the hammer editor.

I might not know as much as some creators but I'm not some punk trying to be special, that's why I'm actually putting effort into this.

Hell, I probably won't even finish this, just like a ton of my other projects. It's just how things go for me, I dunno.


To everyone else not being totally butthurt about me editing a Valve map, thanks for your actual contributions to the thread. I appreciate your ideas and opinions.

 

[grazr]

At the risk of sounding like a bastard there are a few things wrong with a few of the things you have said.

The reason I'm editing a valve map is because I have a lot of trouble sticking with a time-consuming idea, good or otherwise due to ADD or some lack of drive. I have a number of maps in other games, not necessarily 3D, that could be good but I just can't get myself to work on them.

If you can't put the time into a time consuming project then don't start it and do something else you know you can accomplish. It only makes sense, right?

Not to mention all the little bits that go into a full TF2 map, it's just more likely to get finished if the layout and basic structure are there.

You need to think for yourself otherwise it's pointless bothering. If you can't be creative then you shouldn't be in a creative industry.

Creating a basic structure is the most fundimental part of the map making process as this is where all your design experience and knowlegde comes to the for. You're thinking so far ahead, problem solving issues before they even occur.

To everyone else not being totally butthurt about me editing a Valve map, thanks for your actual contributions to the thread. I appreciate your ideas and opinions.

some people have been harsh about this because they are emotionally attatched to this very controversial act of re-releasing an official map. These are strong principles in place to try and make TF2 a better game for everyone, by including more custom content to a game that started out with so little. So it's not to say that what they have said is not valid feedback simply because it hurts your feelings or sounds rude. You can't knock someone for being skeptical when you are breaking their principles on their scene.

If you walk into a temple, shit all over the alter and then expect to be blessed by the priest afterwards, you're sorely mistaken.

Pretty much all of us have had our moments where we havn't had time to map and have taken time off from it. We havn't resorted to editing another authors work to get onto the scene. So that excuse wont get you very far here.

I just realised that to a certain extent i have only re-iterated what Ravigde has said, but the point remains and hopefully you will be more inclined to listen, with the more people who advise you in this particular direction.

After all, presumably this is why you are here? To get feedback on your map? If the majority of people are suggesting you try something else it would be foolish to ignore them, wouldn't it?

Something like this is best produced at home in your spare time as an interesting side project. You've already taken someone elses map in order to edit it, and now you're here asking how you should edit it. What exactly are you trying to achieve? Because at the end of the day it's not your map and it wont even be your ideas implemented in the edited design.

If your best excuse is "I'm lazy" I really think this forum/site/hobby isn't for you.

P.S. I'm not gonna post in this thread again, though i might check on it's progress and for any replies that require answers. Either you listen to the quite unanimus advice or you don't. It's not an arguement, you've asked a question and you've gotten answers with reasons as to why. So don't worry about me trolling your thread.