Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement, and thanks Muddy for the long answer. Let me take some time to answer a few things.
I dont remember people making much feedback on the test today but maybe that's a good thing. I still like the concept and had a fun game I think others were enjoying it too.
You did change the layout/size of the final cap area quite a bit and I think it's a lot better now and that was the only crits I had last time
If the feedback is confused maybe you just need to get it tested more and get a better sample size
Yeah, there wasn't a lot of !fb and !gf on the US gameday, but i usually try to watch the demo and take the feedback page as a reminder. I wasn't able to watch it yet, but i'll do that today or tomorrow.
And about the sample size - I agree, but i don't want to repeat testing the same version too often, because the TF2M group tends to not be happy about that, and i don't really have a big external group willing to test the map until they dream of it.
@Jekyllson - Yeah, i know you've been following very closely. You've given the most feedback and have been very helpful, and i'm quite thankful for that.
The problem currently seems to be that i overshoot my goals whenever i try to do something, which means rolling back some of them with every version while also making other changes. It's quite a delicate balancing act, and while i really really want start detailing the map, i think there'lll still be quite a few alpha versions before i can do that.
The thing I don't like much about mid is how I can be attacked from all different angles, and each angle gives my attackers a height advantage over me. Viaduct is fun to attack and defend because there's only so many different areas enemies can easily attack from, and the height advantages/disadvantages aren't quite as nasty.
Here's where people can approach the point in Viaduct: ignore the black spot
[snip]
There are multiple points of attack to provide attackers with a choice, but at the same time the defenders still have ample cover and can forsee and prepare for attacks as long as they're looking in the general direction of the enemy base.
Here's Harvest's point:
[snip]
This is a bit different in that enemies can easily show up from behind you, but there's still only three routes into the point (quite chokey routes, too) and if you park yourself in a corner you can overlook all three entrances at once. (Some people still consider this bad design and it muddies my point a bit but I figure someone else is gonna bring it up if I don't)
Now look at Akuchi:
[snip]
There are four different routes onto the point (not including the second window on the right, which I marked anyway 'cos it's easy for one team to have control over both windows and alternate between them, and also the awning on the left on which soldiers and demomen can hop onto and spam down from), and they're coming in from all over the place, so anyone trying to capture the point has to be looking in every direction to make sure they don't get flanked - especially given that there are two routes completely bypassing the point, allowing people to go around the attackers/defenders and attack them from behind, something which is much harder to do in Viaduct. hoowee that was a long sentence, good job I'm not a professional writer
I've said in the past that I'm not a fan of Viaduct's funnelly layout (which it looks like you're going for here), but that's a subjective opinion rather than a criticism of the map, and similarly some people might prefer it over Harvest's less-linear layout. But it looks like you're trying to incorporate both styles of layout into your map, and I'm not sure if it works terribly well. Consider removing/blocking off the building on the right, and perhaps the awning of the left too. Or remove the flank routes. Experiment a bunch, that's what alphas are for!
First of all, thanks for the long answer, i appreciate that.
Yes, i'm trying to go for a "viaducty" experience. The reason is mostly, even though i know this is not a particulary well-tested gamemode, i'm trying to keep competitive in mind when designing the map (the first post has quite a lengthy explanation why) - I think that with the advent of matchmaking, there'll be some experimentation with the gamemodes, and i'm trying to fix a few of the key problems of the other gamemodes that are played competitively. And viaduct is simply said the most successful competitive KOTH map by far. So i tried to incorporate a lot of gameplay elements from it. Even a few combat areas are quite similar in size - The flat area of mid is only a few units shorter than mid on Viaduct, the ramps up to it have the same size and same height difference etc. I know about the funnely design, it's also not my usual approach to a KOTH point (usually people tend to critizise my maps because they have too MANY paths) and i'm trying to add some of my personal preferences with the flanks.
I didn't take Harvest into consideration when designing the map, especially because, while i like a lot of the design of Harvest, capping the point there is just an afterthought when you don't currently have anyone to DM, and the only reason that it is ever contested is because Valve pubs have a lot of newer players that try anyway.
About the angles of attack of Akuchi compared with VIaduct - I always considered the windows and the battlements to be the same angle of attack, similar to the battlements on Viaduct (Which you didn't mark as an angle of attack on the Viaduct picture) but i understand the differences and will strongly consider closing the windows for the next version. That would only leave the tunnel as an angle of attack that isn't present on Viaduct (or better said Product because that also has a path that bypasses the point in a similar fashion.) I fear that sentries on the point might become very powerful in pub play, but i think there are still enough ways to take them out.
Taking all your feedback into consideration, i'll wait for the results of the EU gameday, then think about it for a few days before implementing anything. This has always helped me to get a clearer view on what i need to do.