Deliverance b3

[Shmitz]

Oh well hey, after a bit of digging and banging head on desk, I discovered that TF2's scoring behavior is significantly different depending on whether tf_flag_caps_per_round is zero or nonzero.

Zero = treats each flag capture as a main score point as well
Nonzero = each flag cap does NOT update the main score

In retrospect this makes sense, but it was not a behavior discrepancy I was expecting

At least I found the source of my problems now, and things I thought were bugs were simply due to the local test environment not being exactly matched to the server environment.

 

[Shmitz]

Alpha 4 released.

* Added some details to the upper base area to make it more evident what can be jumped on and what can't.
* Added some small healths around the structure in the middle.
* The losing team now has a slightly smaller respawn time when they are three or more points behind.
* Made the upper hut windows a little easier to jump through.

New screenshots:

 

[ANova]

Your map is hot

 

[MangyCarface]

Smaller respawn time, even slightly smaller, is just the map punishing the better team :S It'd work fine as a pub mechanism, but the -idea- of it, even if it has little to no impact, goes against competitive spirit.

Detailing looks to be shaping up nicely

 

[Penguin]

I don't know where to start:

When I played this not 10 minutes ago, it was 15-3. And here's why.

As you do better and better, it becomes easiser and easier to cap as the distance between flag and cap gradually reaches almost nothing.

Each cap should push the intel into your own base, not bring it closer to the enemy cap zone.

 

[Shmitz]

No, teams were stacked, as they ALWAYS are. I'm not closed to the idea of switching it again, but the SAME gross score imbalance happened on earlier versions when the cart moved towards the winning team.

But the fact remains, if one team lets the other control middle, the dominating team is going to be picking up the intel first regardless of which side of the map it's on.

 

[lana]

Poor Shmitz. We need to run more competitive tests. The one time I played this in a comp. game it was really fun, but it seems that it stacks towards one other team under all other circumstances.

 

[Shmitz]

Can anyone who has been on the losing team give me an idea as to what obstacles you might be facing that prevent you from pushing back for control of the middle area (or at least reestablish enough of a presence there that having the intel spawn on your side is an advantage)?

 

[owly-oop]

It seemed kind of hard to get your team together before you get wiped because of long respawn times

 

[honorum646]

Would it make sense to progressively move the intel towards the losing side, shorten respawn times by 1 sec or so for the losing side and, increase the respawn time of the winning side? (by the same amount as the the losing obviously).

 

[DaBeatzProject]

Spawntimes were a little long, as i said in the 'comp.' playtest we had yesterday. Teams matched real well, since we ended with a stalemate. Maybe a suggestion: the winning team captures and delivers the flag, it respawns on the train. Maybe make it so that only the team that didn't capture the flag last time can pick it up from the train, and when they drop it both teams can pick it up? Just a suggestion, I have no idea wether this could work or not.

I really liked the map, and it's improving with every version!

 

[Shmitz]

Spawns times aren't long; they're standard length. However, I see that they may be longer than they should be to keep a team from repeat capping before the wave hits. I'll try shortening them about 20%.

My main concern with short spawn times is it empowers defensive engineers. I haven't seen engineer turtling to be much of a problem yet though, so maybe it's nothing to worry about.

 

[Shmitz]

___________________________________
Revision History

ALPHA 5
* Switched cart directions again. It now moves
toward the team that is winning.
* Reduced spawn wave times globally by 2 seconds.
* Added some cover between the main spawn exit
and the capture zone.
* Did a little bit more detailing.

Despite the advantages of having the intel close, I eventually decided to switch the cart directions again. The cart's end position makes the main path by spawn to be the obvious choice to take it, and I think that favored the "better" team too much. The team that could push past spawn and cap was rewarded by having an easy time sending a scout back to grab it again while the rest kept respawn busy. Now the team that was just capped on has a little bit more time to regroup, clear out their base, and possibly be able to intercept the flag carrier before they capped on again. This looks to be a more important factor than how quickly you can gain control of the flag or how easily you can shift to alternate offensive routes.


Cover by spawn exit:

Playing around with out-of-bounds detailing:

 

[Leminnes]

Trees look good, although a nice expanse out onto a mountain or field would look nice too. The trees are much easier, though.

 

[Shmitz]

Well the test we just had is encouraging. It's the first "pub" game where one side didn't completely steamroll the other, and there was a reasonable amount of back and forth.

 

[Shmitz]

Would the following change be useful and possibly make the drop-down a more attractive path into the capture area?

 

[The Political Gamer]

I like it but it could give the attackers too much of an advantage because now they can bypass the spawn much more easily.

 

[ANova]

I would Move the metal panels to the other side

 

[The Political Gamer]

I would Move the metal panels to the other side

That would only make it worse. The map is very attacker friendly to being with and that would only add to it. If anything I would add a bit more cover to the cap point.

 

[Shmitz]

I like it but it could give the attackers too much of an advantage because now they can bypass the spawn much more easily.

Well, as a drop down path there's risk inherent in taking it if you don't know what's waiting for you. Higher risk, higher potential reward (bypassing spawn with an easy route).

Part of the problem I'm trying to counter is that almost nobody uses that path, and I'm not sure people are even really aware of it.