When should I make a forward spawn? (payload)

[ComradeRoffel]

I am in the process of making a payload map, pl_fryground. And I had alot of people telling me that the walk from blue spawn to the second point was too long, so I should add another spawn when the first point is being capped.

I thought that a payload map never changes spawn after the first point being capped, and that blue should just use engineers to get to the frontlines.

Please help me of what I should do.

 

[Fluury]

Grab inspiration from several official Payload maps: Upward changes spawns after a certain long distance, and so does badwater etc.

If the way to the battlefield is too long, it becomes jarring and annoying for BLU players and can cause a severe imbalance. Relying for BLU to have a certain specific class using a certain specific skill is not really good as its unreliable to have a team always have that certain class. While teleporters should be important they shouldnt be vital to the overall flow of the map.

Upward is a fairly good example of what walk-distances should be relative to the points and respawn times if you ask me. I suggest checking it out, getting a feeling of the distances, and then adjusting your map accordingly. While you can balance out long walk-distances with short respawn times and vice versa, you shouldnt rely too much on it.

 

[Simulacron]

What often helps to detemine if a forward spawn is needed is to look at other maps and how their walk times to the frontline are.
I suggest you load up a few official maps an measure the time it takes for you to walk from the spawns to the frontline (or the next point to cap). With this information you can now measure the times on your own map and figure out where a forward spawn would be a good idea.
With this you can pretty much "copy" the walk time from other maps.
However, keep in mind that every map is different and differnet layouts require different walking distances. My methode is just there to get a rough idea where forward spawns could be placed and should than be altered depending on the feedback you get.

 

[ComradeRoffel]

Grab inspiration from several official Payload maps: Upward changes spawns after a certain long distance, and so does badwater etc.

If the way to the battlefield is too long, it becomes jarring and annoying for BLU players and can cause a severe imbalance. Relying for BLU to have a certain specific class using a certain specific skill is not really good as its unreliable to have a team always have that certain class. While teleporters should be important they shouldnt be vital to the overall flow of the map.

Upward is a fairly good example of what walk-distances should be relative to the points and respawn times if you ask me. I suggest checking it out, getting a feeling of the distances, and then adjusting your map accordingly. While you can balance out long walk-distances with short respawn times and vice versa, you shouldnt rely too much on it.

Is there actually a payload map with a forward spawn after the first point being capped?

 

[Fluury]

Is there actually a payload map with a forward spawn after the first point being capped?

That happens on... probably every payload map that isn't multiple stage. Upward. Badwater. Frontier. Barnblitz. Other maps like Swiftwater instead have you have the same spawn, but with a shortcut.

Forward spawns arent bound to any arbitrary cap number.

 

[Startacker!]

That happens on... probably every payload map that isn't multiple stage. Upward. Badwater. Frontier. Barnblitz. Other maps like Swiftwater instead have you have the same spawn, but with a shortcut.

Forward spawns arent bound to any arbitrary cap number.

I don't think you answered SoldierGuy's question and just reinstated your first post.

Upward moves Blu further forward into their first spawn when A is captured, at the left flank. Most payload maps don't require a forward spawn after A because they don't take a long time to reach the point. As Fluury said, take a look at some popular payload maps and see how long it takes from Blu to get to B from their main spawn, and then your own. If a forward spawn after A is captured would alleviate some pain, then go for it!

 

[ComradeRoffel]

I don't think you answered SoldierGuy's question and just reinstated your first post.

Upward moves Blu further forward into their first spawn when A is captured, at the left flank. Most payload maps don't require a forward spawn after A because they don't take a long time to reach the point. As Fluury said, take a look at some popular payload maps and see how long it takes from Blu to get to B from their main spawn, and then your own. If a forward spawn after A is captured would alleviate some pain, then go for it!

Thank you very much!

 

[nᵗʰSonata]

Also keep respawn wave times in mind; these can be changed by giving a tf_gamerules entity the inputs SetRedTeamRespawnWaveTime and SetRedTeamRespawnWaveTime. The first link above has the respawn wave times for every map listed. Keep in mind that the respawn wave time is the shortest amount of time a player will wait to respawn, and the longest is two times that