Valve hates snipers

[Nineaxis]

Yes, on those technical grounds, the Ambassador out-performs the Sniper Rifle (I already said that).

But it's the practical application that truly counts. Technically, the flare can be more powerful than the shotgun, with it's new higher impact damage and ability to burn over time... but there's situations in which each is better than the other.

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

The huntsman is horrible. You can just dodge it at mid range. If they aren't looking you have to try to predict where they are going to be out of a thousand options. Even at mid range rifle is superior. Scope and hs.

 

[eXeC]

The huntsman is horrible. You can just dodge it at mid range. If they aren't looking you have to try to predict where they are going to be out of a thousand options. Even at mid range rifle is superior. Scope and hs.

The huntsman is for short range not mid or long.

 

[Anda02]

Yes, on those technical grounds, the Ambassador out-performs the Sniper Rifle (I already said that).

But it's the practical application that truly counts. Technically, the flare can be more powerful than the shotgun, with it's new higher impact damage and ability to burn over time... but there's situations in which each is better than the other.

Yeah, gotta agree with that. Although the ambassador cannot achieve one hit kills to the head unlike the sniper rifle.

Anyway, it would be ridiculous for a spy to run around with an ambassador all day and try and kill people in that fashion, the spy is to weak for that. Snipers are supposed to engage at incredibly long ranges, and the sniper rifle does that much better than the ambassador.

 

[Ravidge]

Anyway, it would be ridiculous for a spy to run around with an ambassador all day and try and kill people in that fashion

DrPepper! :cursing:

 

[Waif]

And yes, I find dying to the Huntsman more frustrating because lately, it seems that half the time I try to backstab a Huntsman sniper, either the backstab registration will fail, or the sniper will turn around on their own, and let go of that arrow and it's a headshot.

That has made spy almost unplayable for me since the update. Much harder to quick stab/ get a stream of backstabs happening, sometimes you do the animation but nothing registers at all- even face stabs are just as bad as pre-patch.

 

[grazr]

I suffer from 180 panic turn headshots by the huntsman. How the huntsman performs in close combat IS bs. It breaks flow. It's completely unavoidable. You can't defend against it, in much the same way that facestab is bullshit. Atleast with facestab it's not garaunteed.

It's frustrating because it's unavoidable and this is ironic because this is exactly the type of death Valve was trying to avoid with the sniper rifle headshots. Feeling that you wern't engaged with your enemy or could have tried something different, like not pop your head out on the battlements, or in this instance, not walked into melee range of a SNIPER.

 

[TMP]

HINT TO ANYONE:

THe sniper might as well be called something different if he has the huntsman. He doesn't need to play like a sniper with the huntsman. He needs to play like a wildback hunter!

Just like that, people have to adjust to kill him. He's a different class with the huntsman. He's an archer, not a sniper!

 

[grazr]

Oh, and in reply to the rocket vs arrow comment.

You can dodge a soldier's rockets easily, rockets do self damage, huntsman does not. Huntsman crits on headshot, rocket crits at 3% random or if you did an absurd amount of damage in 3-5 seconds (by which point, tbh, everyone is already dead), crit rocket does not kill heavy the same as a headshot does not (this was implied it did). Per rocket fired reduces soldiers combat ability by 20%, and makes him more vulnerable, firing an arrow does not for the sniper; 1 second reload and he can more than likely kill you in one shot again, one second later and a soldier still has limited ammunition and will more than likely kill himself in an effert to defend himself. only skilled soldiers can target manage more than 1 player at a time.

I would just say you play against good soldiers, it is a class that either has brilliant players or horrible players. Also, Max rocket damage is 114. You will never kill someone with one shot with a rocket unlike an arrow.

 

[Nineaxis]

I suffer from 180 panic turn headshots by the huntsman. How the huntsman performs in close combat IS bs. It breaks flow. It's completely unavoidable. You can't defend against it, in much the same way that facestab is bullshit. Atleast with facestab it's not garaunteed.

It's frustrating because it's unavoidable and this is ironic because this is exactly the type of death Valve was trying to avoid with the sniper rifle headshots. Feeling that you wern't engaged with your enemy or could have tried something different, like not pop your head out on the battlements, or in this instance, not walked into melee range of a SNIPER.

Thanks for putting what I was trying to say into better words. The Huntsman is utter bullshit to any class which has to come close to a sniper wielding it. The sniper doesn't need the kukri if he has it out, he just needs to turn and face the enemy attacking him, and let go, doesn't matter where he aims, it just headshots. I play spy regularly, and snipers have started to slip off my list of targets because of it. Heavies spinning 180 at the last moment were bad enough, but the damage of a minigun from one foot away was justified. Snap shots, from a weapon that is supposed to require a level of precision, being guaranteed headshots is just bullshit however you dissect it.

It's freaking horrible that a spy should no longer target what has always been seen as his biggest target (alongside the Heavy). A sniper doesn't need a Razorback if he has a Huntsman, because he can completely eliminate the Spy instead of disable him for a couple seconds without any skill being necessary.

Furthermore, it's not just headshots from the Huntsman that are bull, it's nearly any shot. I don't know if VALVe decided to give every class the Heavy's hitbox doubled for Huntsman arrow detection, or their latency compensation for arrows is that horribly fudged, but it sucks.

 

[MrAlBobo]

Oh, and in reply to the rocket vs arrow comment.

You can dodge a soldier's rockets easily, rockets do self damage, huntsman does not. Huntsman crits on headshot, rocket crits at 3% random or if you did an absurd amount of damage in 3-5 seconds (by which point, tbh, everyone is already dead), crit rocket does not kill heavy the same as a headshot does not (this was implied it did). Per rocket fired reduces soldiers combat ability by 20%, and makes him more vulnerable, firing an arrow does not for the sniper; 1 second reload and he can more than likely kill you in one shot again, one second later and a soldier still has limited ammunition and will more than likely kill himself in an effert to defend himself. only skilled soldiers can target manage more than 1 player at a time.

I would just say you play against good soldiers, it is a class that either has brilliant players or horrible players. Also, Max rocket damage is 114. You will never kill someone with one shot with a rocket unlike an arrow.

any time you can dodge a rocket you can dodge an arrow
sure crit rocket does not kill a heavy, neither does a fully charged arrow headshot kill a health buffed heavy
1 second reload for the arrow lolz...its 2seconds...seems far more vulnerable then firing a 2nd rocket
as for the soldier having limited ammo comment, not terrible sure what you mean, he has more rockets then a sniper has arrows, if you mean ammo per clip the soldier still has more rockets, which reload at the same rate as the snipers arrows
I must admit I don't often see snipers handling multiple players well in the same situations a soldier would.

I would say you just play against good huntsman snipers, it is a class that either has brilliant players or horrible players. Also, if max rocket damage is 114 explain getting killed with a single rocket multiple times in a row when the rocket is not a crit and nothing else hits you.

And honestly, next time you encounter the 180 dead thing, id advise ducking, as the great extent of what I do in that situation is to shoot perfectly straight, at point blank range the head hitbox is massive and it will usually work. Though honestly...I can't recall ever being hit by that so yeah...

 

[grazr]

Ducking does nothing, i've tried, the odd occasion i have 0.2 seconds to react to such a move i usually jump and settle for 75hp and kill myself by shooting him in the face at point black range with a rocket and watch him go run off to the resupply to patch up. Ducking only garauntees a possible bodyshot does become a headshot. Players so low on the scoreboard you can't even see them is also not what i would exactly call a good player either.

I've had this discussion with people before about rockets and grenades and damage scales, it was either Shmitz, Brandished, perhaps Booj. But i digress, a grenade can do anywhere up to 150 damage on rare occasions, we were all bitching about being one shotted by grenades (youme included, being the w+mouse1 pyro that he is ) and how the rocket damage scale seemed more stable and we wern't sure why, we only assumed it was something to do with rocket jumping. I seriously doubt you got killed by a single rocket. I've seen scouts take direct hits and usually survive with 30 odd hp.

The fact that an arrow travels faster than a rocket makes the statement about being able to dodge one and thus the other just utterly.. stupid.

But this is a stupid arguement because neither will give the benefit of a doubt to the other. I don't hate the huntsman, i just avoid snipers who use it because it's not worth the pointless death when i can just go cap the intel and harrass sentry locations. I've been killed behind cover too many times with it to even bother attempting to be smart about it ingame. You've obviously never been headshot at point blank range by a huntsman enough times to care. Do you even play enough to realise this tendancy? I've racked up a rather sad 46+ hours in TF2 the past fortnight (i believe that's what it's recorded over). You play a game enough and you notice these things more and more. Especially when you're a soldier who prey's on the battlements.

I must admit I don't often see snipers handling multiple players well in the same situations a soldier would.

I should hope not, that's not his job. The snipers not an assault class, and most players would be dead before given the oppotunity to get into mid range with him.. a distraction is usually the only way to kill a huntsman player now that you bring it up. I wait for an eager pyro to run in and get headshot so i can then finish the job with a rocket shotgun combo, bouncing them off the battlements is the only sure fire way to make sure they miss.

But beyond mid-range and long distance the huntsman is only good against other snipers in A/D maps.

Nineaxis pretty much said the point in one sentance:

The sniper doesn't need the kukri if he has it out, he just needs to turn and face the enemy attacking him, and let go, doesn't matter where he aims, it just headshots.

Huntsman at close range = insta win. I'm not trying to be an arragont arsehole about not being able to deal with this constant frustrating occurance, i just agree with nineaxis, and the fact that several people agree only validates the arguement regardless of how 'retardedly' other weapons supposedly perform.

 

[Ninjilla]

Yeah, within a 5 foot range, Huntsman is a BS weapon. Makes killing a sniper on 2fort annoying sometimes. If they hear you decloak, death soon awaits.

 

[Nineaxis]

I'd also like to point out that Huntsman BS headshots aren't skill- it's one thing to be repeatedly killed by a sniper and say he was good, but it's different when I can switch to Sniper (I don't play sniper, my aim is horrible), switch to Huntsman, and do the same exact thing to other people.

Last night before the contest map testing event began, me and TMP were messing around, he was trying to reflect arrows. Not once, not twice, but three times, at a range of nine or ten feet, I aimed at his stomach (to make it easier to reflect because that's where the flamethrower is held), let go, and got a headshot for it. Utter BS.

 

[MrAlBobo]

Ducking does nothing, i've tried, the odd occasion i have 0.2 seconds to react to such a move i usually jump and settle for 75hp and kill myself by shooting him in the face at point black range with a rocket and watch him go run off to the resupply to patch up. Ducking only garauntees a possible bodyshot does become a headshot.

alright then, Ill freely admit ive never been hit in this fashion, so I would not know how to avoid it

Players so low on the scoreboard you can't even see them is also not what i would exactly call a good player either.

If I use the huntsman, I am consistently near the top of the scoreboard, if not at the top.

the rocket damage scale seemed more stable and we wern't sure why, we only assumed it was something to do with rocket jumping. I seriously doubt you got killed by a single rocket. I've seen scouts take direct hits and usually survive with 30 odd hp.

As a scout I walk around a corner at full health, die in an explosion, check the top right corner, says I was killed by blank with a rocket, no assist is listed and there is no red overlay to signify a crit. Now, unless he somehow had two rockets in the air that hit me at exactly the same time, I would be inclined to assume that a single rocket can kill a 125 health class.

The fact that an arrow travels faster than a rocket makes the statement about being able to dodge one and thus the other just utterly.. stupid.

Honestly, at the same distance you would be able to dodge a rocket entirely (no splash damage) you would be able to dodge an arrow, unless the sniper anticipated where you were going. I stand by this, all it takes to dodge an arrow is a step in either direction.

But this is a stupid arguement because neither will give the benefit of a doubt to the other. I don't hate the huntsman, i just avoid snipers who use it because it's not worth the pointless death when i can just go cap the intel and harrass sentry locations. I've been killed behind cover too many times with it to even bother attempting to be smart about it ingame. You've obviously never been headshot at point blank range by a huntsman enough times to care. Do you even play enough to realise this tendancy? I've racked up a rather sad 46+ hours in TF2 the past fortnight (i believe that's what it's recorded over). You play a game enough and you notice these things more and more. Especially when you're a soldier who prey's on the battlements.

I agree, this is a stupid argument for the reason listed, the difference being, I do hate soldiers. As said earlier, no I have not been headshot at point blank by it. In the 2 weeks after the update I played for about 56 hours, in the past 2 weeks I have played for 22 hours. I have played enough to notice things, primarily that its damn easy to not get hit by arrows.

I should hope not, that's not his job. The snipers not an assault class, and most players would be dead before given the oppotunity to get into mid range with him.. a distraction is usually the only way to kill a huntsman player now that you bring it up. I wait for an eager pyro to run in and get headshot so i can then finish the job with a rocket shotgun combo, bouncing them off the battlements is the only sure fire way to make sure they miss.

I honestly don't understand you people, what, do you run in a straight line towards the sniper and pray you don't get shot? Zig zag a bit, jump around like a crazy person, if Im close enough I will run up to them, they miss their shot, then I kill them with the kukri, this works more often then it fails. I mean hell, yesterday I played as a heavy, stood in a doorway, the domain of a huntsman sniper, and killed two of them. Clearly the average huntsman sniper if far worse then you pump him up to be.

Huntsman at close range = insta win. I'm not trying to be an arragont arsehole about not being able to deal with this constant frustrating occurance, i just agree with nineaxis, and the fact that several people agree only validates the arguement regardless of how 'retardedly' other weapons supposedly perform.

Once again, I don't see this, at least not in the huntsman snipers I fight. Personally the rotate, crit rocket thing is far more irritating to me, and has hit me far more often. The fact that several people agree means nothing to me, Im sure you could find several people agreeing on things more retarded, I was going to add an example, but I can't think of anything thats not extremely offensive.

Yeah, within a 5 foot range, Huntsman is a BS weapon. Makes killing a sniper on 2fort annoying sometimes. If they hear you decloak, death soon awaits.

Before the update I can't think of many spies that would survive if I heard them de-cloak, though back then it was the result of bs crit kukri instead of bs headshot

I'd also like to point out that Huntsman BS headshots aren't skill- it's one thing to be repeatedly killed by a sniper and say he was good, but it's different when I can switch to Sniper (I don't play sniper, my aim is horrible), switch to Huntsman, and do the same exact thing to other people.

Last night before the contest map testing event began, me and TMP were messing around, he was trying to reflect arrows. Not once, not twice, but three times, at a range of nine or ten feet, I aimed at his stomach (to make it easier to reflect because that's where the flamethrower is held), let go, and got a headshot for it. Utter BS.

but can you do the same thing to the same person? its never difficult to kill people that suck <_<

Utter BS indeed, that you would think that just because you apparently can't aim that a weapon is bs...
Where was the arrow when you did this? was it in hit head or in his stomach?
If it was in his head then you either can't aim, or you held the arrow for more then 5 seconds resulting in it skewing off at a random angle, when you just so happened to be exceptionally lucky and get a headshot.

 

[Nineaxis]

The problem is because the Huntsman sticks people to walls, the arrow jumps to the ragdoll's head if it headshots, even if you watch the arrow and its trail and they don't hit in the head.

 

[grazr]

I mean hell, yesterday I played as a heavy, stood in a doorway, the domain of a huntsman sniper, and killed two of them. Clearly the average huntsman sniper if far worse then you pump him up to be.

My point isn't that the huntsman takes no skill and everyone is amazing at it, i find it's utterly useless at anything other than 10ft+ distance. At which point it becomes the easiest weapon in the world to use. It's like a melee weapon with a rediculous reach that always crits killing anything other than a overhealed heavy.

I play soldier 90% of the time and i've never killed anyone "fresh" with one rocket unless they've taken some sort of damage and run away from said combat into me. The explosive crit bug was fixed months ago and you just happen to be some incredibly unlucky player, besides, going against teams where soldier is a common class only increases the chances that one of these rockets will be a crit. It's unfortunate it happens to be you a lot of the time. "Chance" is a bastard more often than not.

I play soldier and play in a server (my regular) that unlike most servers that don't have many players select this class, have between 2 and 4 soldiers already per team. I've never seen an excess amount of crit rockets, especially that which kill. This is why i defend the claims that rockets are BS as i have a very large amount of experience with them. I've observed that most soldiers die in 1 vs 1 unless they jump down on people and damage them a little (ie those crucial last 11 odd hitpoints on 125hp classes so 1 rocket does kill) before getting into direct combat. let alone being outnumbered and i've been claimed to "ammo script", what ever that is, apparently i get 6 rockets or something as a result. Which i just find amusing. As far as the player base goes pretty much 90% of those i have talked to have agreed that the soldier is the most balanced class and dread the day of the soldier update as it can only be destroyed. People i wipe the floor with ingame. A shame this is only hearsay discussion.

P.S. it's not hard to get to the top of a scoreboard as sniper when HS = 2 points. Even a bad sniper finds himself somewhere in the middle of the scoreboard.

 

[MrAlBobo]

It's like a melee weapon with a rediculous reach that always crits killing anything other than a overhealed heavy.

This is what irritates me for the most part, because this simply does not happen. Saying that without any kind of aim, a sniper will always headshot someone at close range is like saying that every shot a soldier fires is a crit.

I play soldier 90% of the time and i've never killed anyone "fresh" with one rocket unless they've taken some sort of damage and run away from said combat into me. The explosive crit bug was fixed months ago and you just happen to be some incredibly unlucky player, besides, going against teams where soldier is a common class only increases the chances that one of these rockets will be a crit. It's unfortunate it happens to be you a lot of the time. "Chance" is a bastard more often than not.

Ive killed all of 2 people with a arrow bodyshot so far <_< so ill agree that the odds of both are low, even if the sniper is slightly higher.
...honestly I have no idea what "the explosive crit bug" is...
yes...chance can be a bitch, though to be honest I suspect people I fight would say chance tends to be on my side

P.S. it's not hard to get to the top of a scoreboard as sniper when HS = 2 points. Even a bad sniper finds himself somewhere in the middle of the scoreboard.

P.S. that has been changed now...i think, of the sniper rifle and huntsman, at least one of them does not get 2 points on headshot I can't recall which

 

[Ravidge]

P.S. that has been changed now...i think, of the sniper rifle and huntsman, at least one of them does not get 2 points on headshot I can't recall which

The rifle doesn't get 2 points for headshot anymore.
Don't know about the huntsman.

 

[Anda02]

In all honesty, I have never seen a sniper run around and engage in close combat wielding only the Huntsman and begin to murder everyone around them. When spy players are getting killed by the huntsman (also note you are about 2 ft away about to backstab) and a sniper turns around and kills you just try a different approach. Most people by now should have the ambassador, and if you go up to the sniper and peg him twice in the head its over.

There is a balance to most things. The Huntsman is useless at long range, unless in the hands of a skilled player. And the whole point of the huntsman is to attack at short range. A fully charged huntsman is essentially the same as a fully charged sniper rifle, minus the sights and a slightly lagged projectile (aka could possibly one shot kill Medics, Scouts, Engineers, and other Snipers). I can't tell you the many times I have just quickly stepped to the side and successfully evaded an arrow at close to medium range.

PS: I've been hit in a place other than the before and haven't died... as a scout.