[Tutorial] Displacements

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
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roundcorner.jpg

I'd also like to add that despite using less brushes, it's using about quadruple the triangles of if you did it with brushes.
 
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Nutomic

L11: Posh Member
Feb 7, 2009
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Thats right, but the displacements still take much less performance, because they can be rendered in batches or something.
 

XFunc_CaRteR

L5: Dapper Member
May 14, 2009
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The gaurdian tunnels had more than a simple subdivide used in their creation. But that said, those tunnels were supposed to be more rounded than normal, due to how they were made. TF2 tunnels should be jaggedy to not only fit with the theme but how they were created (pick axes and dynamite).

Nah. You are wrong. Rules are meant to be broken. Anybody who says, "Tunnels MUST be made this way" is begging to be proven wrong.

The truth is, the way you make it depends on what its needs are. The needs have to be assessed on a case by case basis. You might make a sewer, for example, that is ringed with brick. It would be totally appropriate to do such a tunnel as a tube.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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Nah. You are wrong. Rules are meant to be broken. Anybody who says, "Tunnels MUST be made this way" is begging to be proven wrong.

The truth is, the way you make it depends on what its needs are. The needs have to be assessed on a case by case basis. You might make a sewer, for example, that is ringed with brick. It would be totally appropriate to do such a tunnel as a tube.

The thing is though, you don't need displacements to make a tube. The sewers in 2fort, the secret water entrance in well. These are all brush work tubes.

I'm not saying, and never stated, that "tunnels have to be made this way". Simply that doing them (the type of tunnels you discuss) with displacements is not the most efficient way to do them. The fact that Valve have not either, is a hint unto itself. You would think that they understand their own game engine.

Taking tunnel creation on a case by case basis wont change the nature of how to construct them in Hammer and how they perform in game; these issues are dictated by the editor and engine capabilities. Not by any individual questioning the status quo of design principles (such as you or I). Cause and effect: There's no reason for taking the effert of creating a tunnel (in the form you hypothesise) with displacements, when brushwork is quicker and performs better ingame. You are right that the Gaurdian tunnels look sweet, but Guardian tunnels will never be an issue in TF2. A tunnel will either warrant brushwork for its uniformity, or displacements for its non-uniformity. The TF2 universe gives us pretty strict rules to apply to our visual design process as well.

Creating a cave may warrant subdivision to get the bulk of the work/achieving the basic hollowed shape out of the way, and/or to make it easier to work from. But it certainly shouldn't be left at that. Even the Gaurdian tunnels did not suffer us a basic subdivision.

Point and case: Rocky tunnels should (because it looks and performs better) be produced with displacements. Concrete tunnels and the like should (because it looks the same, is easier to work with and performs better) be made with basic brush work. But of course the option is available to create them otherwise. Just don't expect them to give you a better result if you do build them that way.
 
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iWantcoal

L1: Registered
Sep 7, 2013
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I hate to necro a 4 year old thread, but I'm too afraid to create a new thread just for a tiny question so...

How did nucleus build the mathematically perfect displacement arch-ramps? (the ones connecting from lower floor to upper lobby entrance)

I normally make them with triangulated arches, but I feel like an idiot for doing that. I'm new to displacements, and have no idea how to manipulate the subdivide function.

From what I know, the subdivide button picks all the exterior corners of the selected displacements, and smoothes the shape out. The ramps were created on flat arches above the ramp itself, so using subdivide wouldn't do anything vertically. I'm really lost at how he changed the corner origins without changing the original bushes.

(BTW, I'm fairly certain the creator of nucleus used subdivide on it, because the ramp changed very subtly when I clicked subdivide again)
 

Seba

DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD
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Jun 9, 2009
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There's nothing wrong with using triangulated arches; that's usually smooth enough for people not to notice. TBH I'm not sure how Nucleus was made; I can't picture where the subdivide helper brushes would be. It's quite possible that the displacements were generated by some software, but I'm not sure if Valve would care enough to do so.
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
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Thats right, but the displacements still take much less performance, because they can be rendered in batches or something.

iirc brushes are split up into batch sections based on where visleafs start and end on them. so you COULD have an extremely complex func_detail brush that's faster than a displacement.
 

Micnax

Back from the dead (again)
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Apr 25, 2009
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How did nucleus build the mathematically perfect displacement arch-ramps? (the ones connecting from lower floor to upper lobby entrance)

You could always contact Iikka about it... though it'd be kinda weird just asking out of the blue something as small as that :p

iirc brushes are split up into batch sections based on where visleafs start and end on them. so you COULD have an extremely complex func_detail brush that's faster than a displacement.

That'd bump your brush limit up a bunch, especially if you're doing multiple ramps
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
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notice that I said brush singular
if you have multiple brushes i'm pretty sure they get separated, unless they like, share all but two coplanar faces
 

Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
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Nov 14, 2009
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There's nothing wrong with using triangulated arches; that's usually smooth enough for people not to notice. TBH I'm not sure how Nucleus was made; I can't picture where the subdivide helper brushes would be. It's quite possible that the displacements were generated by some software, but I'm not sure if Valve would care enough to do so.
I'm not in Windows at the moment, but if the ramps do indeed use displacements, then in all likelihood they were made by creating actual brush-based arches — four of them, each comprising a quarter of the width they were aiming at — and using their corners as a guide to line up the vertices of the displacement faces. That's how they built the Hydro dish.
 

iWantcoal

L1: Registered
Sep 7, 2013
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There's nothing wrong with using triangulated arches; that's usually smooth enough for people not to notice. TBH I'm not sure how Nucleus was made; I can't picture where the subdivide helper brushes would be. It's quite possible that the displacements were generated by some software, but I'm not sure if Valve would care enough to do so.

Twister. Yup, it's twister. There is a curve option, and under that is a "Curved Ramp" box to make the curve ramped.
Still, thanks, for telling me about displacement softwares!
 

YM

LVL100 YM
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Dec 5, 2007
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It's because imageshack is a steaming pile of turd. My old tutorials used it, some of the images still exist, others have disappeared
 

Vastrix

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Aug 11, 2014
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It's because imageshack is a steaming pile of turd. My old tutorials used it, some of the images still exist, others have disappeared

Ah sweet, you have a displacement tut as well \o/
Thank god :p (I suck at displacements, it's right up there with visleaves :))
 

Dragonisser

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Jul 12, 2014
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I hate to revive this thread but when i press create and click ok nothing happens. Same for sew, invert alpha and remove faces :/